A way to keep both casual and hardcore players happy

[Shirai]

I have to agree with SpookyGhost on this, the content is avaialable to everyone -its up to the individuals to decide if they want to access it.

This.
The loot and best gear should just stay wherever it is, at the difficulty it is at.
The best gear in game isn't meant for everyone to have, only for those who are willing to work and take up the challenge for it.

[AiChyan]

Casual is also not a definition of bad/new/noob players. Bad/new/noob players are can be both hardcore and casual. Personally, i've met more bad hardcore players than casuals. So yeah... gear is not what's holding "casuals" back. There is actually nothing holding casuals back since atma and animus etc aren't even a core requirement to complete any of the content in the game including coil, not to mention that it's not that hard to get anyways...

Really, bad players are just bad and need to learn and improve. Don't try lump themselves as "casual" and demand the game to lower difficulty level for you. Casual and hardcore is just a difference in the amount of time you spent in game, not the skill of the player.
Yes, it may hurt your pride a bit to admit that you're not as good as you thought you were.

Perfect response is perfect.

[ShinigamiB06]

So, alright, I think you're a bit confused on what "access to content" means. Let's say you bought a game like... Banjo Kazooie, yeah? For those that don't know, in BK you at first only have access to one world (Mumbo's Mountain). By participating in Mumbo's Mountain you get access to Jiggies (puzzle pieces) which you use on puzzles in different areas of the hub world to gain access to the next world. To unlock new areas in the hub world, you also need musical notes, which are also scattered throughout every world you visit. Now, would you expect them to remove this system entirely so you can access every world whenever you want to, even going as far as fighting the last boss 5 minutes into the game? Because you payed for the game, are you entitled to skip EVERYTHING and go straight to the end? No, you're really not - and if you don't like that, video games aren't for you. You should, instead, invest in buying a movie - something you CAN skip straight to the end of and cut out all the rest of it. I don't think that's the best way to enjoy a movie... but it is an option you have, and an understandable one. But in video games, you're expected to have to beat x to get access to y, otherwise I... don't really get why you're playing the game in the first place.

Basically, everyone has access to the challenge - that content isn't locked away, it's right there. Beat it and you get a reward, or access to new content where you can get an even greater reward (Coil1 -> Coil2). That's video games.

Your example is not really a good analogy in regards to my suggestion. You are saying that I'm suggesting we skip content. That is NOT what I am suggesting. I'm not saying that they allow you to skip musical notes so you can go straight to the final boss. I'm suggesting that they don't make you get the same musical note 50 times so you can move on to the next musical note. Do you see the difference?

[ShinigamiB06]

Since i90 ish has been shown to be able to be used to clear up to t9, I don't think gear is really a problem to begin with.... Primal extremes can be easily done in anything around i80. Casual is also not a definition of bad/new/noob players. Bad/new/noob players are can be both hardcore and casual. Personally, i've met more bad hardcore players than casuals. So yeah... gear is not what's holding "casuals" back. There is actually nothing holding casuals back since atma and animus etc aren't even a core requirement to complete any of the content in the game including coil, not to mention that it's not that hard to get anyways...

Really, bad players are just bad and need to learn and improve. Don't try lump themselves as "casual" and demand the game to lower difficulty level for you. Casual and hardcore is just a difference in the amount of time you spent in game, not the skill of the player.
Yes, it may hurt your pride a bit to admit that you're not as good as you thought you were.

Literally, not once, did I use the word skill in my post or anything like it. Nor did I say casuals are bad/new/noob. You completely misunderstood my suggestion all for the sake of insulting me and saying that I am bad at this game. But it's all good if that's what tickles your pickle.

I never asked for content to be made less difficult. In your words, you said that i90 is enough to clear t9. What I was actually suggesting was that if i90 is enough to clear everything up to t9, then make it less of a grind to achieve i90 so casuals can grind less to experience more content. The game literally has minimum ilvl requirements to beat content regardless of players skill and this is literally true because in many places there are dps check. Again, so you don't misinterpret my post again and insult my skill level, I DO NOT WANT CONTENT DIFFICULTY TO BE REDUCED. (the caps are not me screaming, just me hoping it will help you read better)

[Shirai]

The thing is, they already have.

By unlocking Both Coil and removing the Myth cap i90 gear is up for grabs.
Yes, you still have to work to get iLevel 90, they aren't going to flatout hand you the gear now that there's better available.

Basically how I see all your arguments right now, you are asking for handouts.

A RPG, wether it's online or offline always has a form of grind.
If you don't like it, as you seem to advocate in your signature, this might not be the right type of game for you.

[ShinigamiB06]

The thing is, they already have.

By unlocking Both Coil and removing the Myth cap i90 gear is up for grabs.
Yes, you still have to work to get iLevel 90, they aren't going to flatout hand you the gear now that there's better available.

Basically how I see all your arguments right now, you are asking for handouts.

A RPG, wether it's online or offline always has a form of grind.
If you don't like it, as you seem to advocate in your signature, this might not be the right type of game for you.

*Sigh* You have no idea how badly I wish people would just stop saying that. RPGs don't HAVE to be grindfests just because they have been up until this point. And my suggestion is simply trying to set the game in a way where people who want to grind can, and people who don't wont. But it sounds to me like you want ALL players to have to grind content. If im asking for handouts, you are asking to be rewarded for lack of skill. Because in essence, that is what grinding is.

[Shirai]

For the longevity of this game and all of the other MMO out there grind is necessary, there can't be an or/or because if you give people the option not to grind they will not grind and you will see many more topics popping up about how bored people are and how easy it is to get everything.

[ShinigamiB06]

For the longevity of this game and all of the other MMO out there grind is necessary, there can't be an or/or because if you give people the option not to grind they will not grind and you will see many more topics popping up about how bored people are and how easy it is to get everything.

But I AM suggesting there be grind, but to have it happen AFTER primals and turns...

[skaterger]

How can gearing up be any easier and more accessible than it is currently? A freshly dinged 50 can jump straight into the hm dungeons which drops darklight myth and soldiery. It shouldn't take long before said player can enter coil t1 and start learning how to play his class in raids properly and gearing up with coil drops simultaneously. With the echo buff t1-4 is a joke. The only easier way I can think of to level is to go the p2w model - here's an ilvl 90 character for 50 bucks ala wow. Also if you think new players can jump directly into the second coil without doing the first you are seriously mistaken. They would be stuck anyway and be no different from not unlocking it in the first place.


Also your point about grinding after raiding does not make sense. Both are separate progression paths and it would totally devalue the worth of animus. Hey guys we got our high allagan weapon now let's go farm for Animus. Doesn't that sound wrong to you?

A better suggestion imo is to make heroic raids which offer slightly higher ilvl gear but encounter considerably harder.

[XNihili]

*Sigh* You have no idea how badly I wish people would just stop saying that. RPGs don't HAVE to be grindfests just because they have been up until this point. And my suggestion is simply trying to set the game in a way where people who want to grind can, and people who don't wont. But it sounds to me like you want ALL players to have to grind content. If im asking for handouts, you are asking to be rewarded for lack of skill. Because in essence, that is what grinding is.

Then when can we expect a RPG where a Lv1 go straight to the big boss and kill him ?