The Monk Temple Reborn

[Craiger]

extending greased lightning wont help the underlying issue, if its falling off when a boss isnt invulnerable then your not pushing the class to its fullest potential, you simply cant balance classes around the mediocre players because then the top tier players will be gods on that class, so the best of the best start doing nothing but the one class and thats no fun for anyone.

also, the chakra system isnt designed for use in tank n spank fights, if anyone had gone into the new EX primals you should know exactly what im talking about, the ilvl 160 dungeons are just tank and spank, as you should expect out of regular farm dungeons

First of all, good players wouldn't be gods if GL was longer... Good players don't lose GL in fights, unless there's a long downtime, which those extra few seconds wouldn't change much about. I'm not saying I would like longer GL, cause I don't think it's needed, but MNKs can't be gods if they can't get past other DPS jobs even in a perfect scenario, which they can't, they're like 3rd on DPS.

Chakra isn't designed for tank n spank fights, no, but have you ever stopped and thought about when you could use Meditation in some of the fights we've had in Coil? There are less usages then you might think in some cases. Even if there are lots of usages, it's still just a lot of effort for something so little.

MNKs have always been about high sustain DPS before, now we're below on DPS, and even with lots of downtime, the other melee jobs are better at recovering than we are even with Chakra...

Also, someone mentioned that MNK isn't too bad of on DPS even with little usage of those abilities, which is kinda true, even though we are behind, but that's not the point... I don't care that we are somewhat on point in that department, cause I wanted MNK to get something interesting and new just like every other job pretty much got. Even if you don't like some of the changes other jobs got, they at least got more new and interesting things.

[Zamii]

Chakra isn't designed for tank n spank fights, no, but have you ever stopped and thought about when you could use Meditation in some of the fights we've had in Coil? There are less usages then you might think in some cases. Even if there are lots of usages, it's still just a lot of effort for something so little.

Turn 4: between wave drops
Turn 5: divebombs
Turn 6: breaking vines, running into briar
Turn 7: cursed shriek
Turn 8: running into tower
Turn 9: divebombs, meteor streams, meteor drops
Turn 12: phase 2-3 transtion, phase 4 dodge
Turn 13: divebombs, earth shaker

theres probably more if you really look close

[Craiger]

Turn 4: between wave drops
Turn 5: divebombs
Turn 6: breaking vines, running into briar
Turn 7: cursed shriek
Turn 8: running into tower
Turn 9: divebombs, meteor streams, meteor drops
Turn 12: phase 2-3 transtion, phase 4 dodge
Turn 13: divebombs, earth shaker

theres probably more if you really look close

Well, we're talking about a 320 potency attack, not some super nuke ability... I'm not saying you won't ever have time to use it, but you have to find opportunities like that 5 times to get a half decent damage attack. Ofc, if it's a longer downtime, you can get even up to 5 stacks out of it, but still, what I was looking for in 3.0 for MNK, was some core change to how it's played. Not that there was anything wrong with them, but at least I want something fresh in an expansion.

Look at DRG for example, while some of it is weird, they're at least getting some massive changes to how they play, and it looks fun and new.

EDIT: Also, in terms of DPS, in ARR MNKs was OP when it came to early progression raids, because of DK, but now you can just use a DRK instead, and all of a sudden all the advantage MNK had over NIN and DRG are gone. Mantra is good, but not needed. So there aren't as much excuse for MNKs being behind them in DPS like it kinda was in ARR.

[Butcherboy]

I don't think was behind drg and nin in terms of dps. I think no k in ARR were ahead of the two but here in HW is a diff story.

[Craiger]

I don't think was behind drg and nin in terms of dps. I think no k in ARR were ahead of the two but here in HW is a diff story.

It wasn't clear who was ahead if anyone was, but what I meant was that players thought it would be better balance wise if someone like DRG got ahead with their lesser utility, which they are now, but now DK isn't as needed...

[Letts]

As for chakra tweaking, the best idea I've heard is having each GL refresh provide 1 stack of chakra.

That does sound like a much better idea, repeatedly charging to 5 stacks gets a bit tedious after a while. Mostly disappointed in the potency of tornado kick though), sounded like something cool to do if you already had GL3 and PB was up again but now its just extremely situational.

[Butcherboy]

It wasn't clear who was ahead if anyone was, but what I meant was that players thought it would be better balance wise if someone like DRG got ahead with their lesser utility, which they are now, but now DK isn't as needed...

Wait I thought that dk can override drk debuff but not the other way around

[AniCelestine]

Wait I thought that dk can override drk debuff but not the other way around

I've heard that German tooltip says it gives the same effect as DK and not only -int. But haven't got any tested proof so can't say for sure, nor can I say if drk debuff will overwrite mnk's.

[Letts]

Wait I thought that dk can override drk debuff but not the other way around

Thats correct, drks debuff cannot be applied if DK is already up, Dk overwrites it if its up.

[Craiger]

Thats correct, drks debuff cannot be applied if DK is already up, Dk overwrites it if its up.

Didn't mean that you wouldn't be using DK, I meant that if you have a DRK, the int reduction that DK gives you, wouldn't be needed. MNK was pretty much needed to get early kills of raids, but not anymore if you have a DRK. I actually like that they did that, but you can't then make MNKs DPS lower at the same time...