The Monk Temple Reborn

[SunnyHirose]

You have around a third of a second to refresh it at 400 sks.

By my calculations, 0.20s.

I didn't do teh math myself, I had a friend of mine put it through some calculations and this one came out ahead most of the time. ACT is not present in that video but it bursts around 750 dps everytime, exempting atrocious crit RNG of course

Hm, I got it backwards. Oops. I forgot that DoTs are down payments and you don't get 'em till you get 'em.

So, it's more like with Snap-Snap-Demolish you're ahead by ~122 potency 1/3 of the time and behind by ~78 potency 2/3 of the time.* Why does it matter? This window comes when Demolish-Snap-Snap is applying a new Demolish, and Snap-Snap-Demolish has had its Demolish just tick out. A window that comes up at... the 3 minute mark

* Fists of Fire and oGCD buffs were not considered for these calculations.

[Ossom]

By my calculations, 0.20s.

Hm, I got it backwards. Oops. I forgot that DoTs are down payments and you don't get 'em till you get 'em.

So, it's more like with Snap-Snap-Demolish you're ahead by ~122 potency 1/3 of the time and behind by ~78 potency 2/3 of the time.* Why does it matter? This window comes when Demolish-Snap-Snap is applying a new Demolish, and Snap-Snap-Demolish has had its Demolish just tick out. A window that comes up at... the 3 minute mark

* Fists of Fire and oGCD buffs were not considered for these calculations.

oGCD buffs are more than half the reason people do Snap > Snap > Demo. So if you don't account for a Buffed Demo then you might not really be getting more potency doing Demo > Snap > Snap.

I personally don't see how Demo > Snap > Snap is more dps. I understand that it might have more burst damage, but the moment you apply the second Demo I feel like you are now a lower potency than a Snap > Snap > Demo rotation.

Imho, burst damage means nothing, at least as a monk. The biggest part of a Snap > Snap > Demo's dps is the first Buffed Demo (GL2/B4B/Internal Release), the first buffed ToD (GL3/B4B/Internal Release/X-Pot) and then the second Demo (GL3/B4B/X-Pot). It's not designed to be a heavy burst dmg rotation, if it was, then it would be

Snap > Snap > Snap > DK > Bootshine > Bootshine > Twin or some variant of that. Going from No GL to GL3.

[SunnyHirose]

oGCD buffs are more than half the reason people do Snap > Snap > Demo. So if you don't account for a Buffed Demo then you might not really be getting more potency doing Demo > Snap > Snap.

The math is kinda gorey... basically, the way to overcome the opportunity cost from the initial Demolish, you'd need both BfB + IR on it, but it might also turn out that the two different GCD rotations would have different optimal oGCD usages, and that I haven't bothered to math out yet.

MATH:

Assume 400 skill speed, and consider anything that isn't a Coeurl Form move to be the same between the rotations (in other words, at the same equilibrium afterwards):

Demolish + Snap + Snap: The second Demolish comes 17.3688 s after the first, making its estimated clipped potency 301.584. First Snap Punch has GL1, making its potency 180 * 1.09 = 196.200. Second Snap Punch has GL2 and BfB, making its potency 180 * 1.18 * 1.1 = 233.640. Total potency is 731.424.

Snap + Snap + Demolish: First Snap Punch has potency 180. Second Snap Punch has GL1, making its potency 196.2. Demolish has GL2 and BfB, making its potency 310 * 1.18 * 1.1 = 402.380. However, this has sacrificed 4.77029 s of the completely unbuffed Demolish uptime you would have gotten from using Demolish first, so we penalize it by 40 * 4.77029/3 = 63.6039 potency opportunity cost. That makes the potency 714.976.

What if we use Internal Release before BfB? Well, let's use a crit stat of 500 as an example. That's a crit rate of ~16.5% (using Puro Strider's formula), making for a probabilistic 1.08242 buff to anything that isn't Bootshine, or 1.23242 when IR is up. Since we're not comparing Bootshines here, you can consider it probabilistically a buff of 1.13858.

DSS: 301.584 + 196.200 * 1.13858 + 233.640 * 1.13858 = 790.991227
SSD: 180 + 196.200 * 1.13858 + 402.380 * 1.13858 - 63.6039 = 797.927316

I have not yet determined what is theoretically a better oGCD usage in terms of opportunity cost. Either way, I'm not moving off Snap-Snap-Demolish myself because I need that extra leeway with most tanks, no question whatsoever.

[Ossom]

Just a heads up Sunny. Thats a buffed demo you are clipping with 4.77,

So its not 40 * 4.77 etc..

Its 40 * 1.18 * 1.1 * 4.77..

Though this is Burst damage though. My Current opener puts IR after the first Snap though. If you're going to delay that first Demo, you better make it worth it IMHO.

I have a suggestion though, I see you are counting the first Demo as going all the way through, but not the second. If that's so, then I think you should include the last skill that goes off when demo drops. In this case, Demo for the first set, Minus all of its ticks, and Snap Punch for the second one. Since these are the last two skills that diverge from the two rotations before you end it.

[SunnyHirose]

Just a heads up Sunny. Thats a buffed demo you are clipping with 4.77,

It's not a clip! It's an opportunity cost. What I have shown above is not supposed to be the result of cutting off the rotation at a certain time, but rather what the potency of the opener is in a general sense, where the ensuing rotation is considered the same wave on a different phase shift.

[PROBOUND]

My Current opener puts IR after the first Snap though. If you're going to delay that first Demo, you better make it worth it IMHO.

Correct me if i'm wrong but in the video you use Internal Release after the Dragon Kick and PB falls off just before the ToD. Have you since changed this? Or are you referring to when you do the Snap-Snap-Demo method?

[Ossom]

You're thinking of the other monk. I haven't posted a video. My rotation has always been

Snap > Snap > Demo.

More specifically

Snap > Ir > Snap > B4B > Demo.

[PROBOUND]

snip

Ahhh sorry for the mixup XD

[Tatsuo12]

Hey everyone, been trying to read all the comments but they are so many lol, so heres my question
im a mnk with ilvl126, i just got my i130 ironwork weapons and most of my iron works are 130 cept for the demon gloves (wod) and the demon head/dreadwyrm head pieces.
ive been parsing for a while and im pulling 555 without food/pots on dummy
my opener is:
PB > Demo > b4b > Snap > Str pot > Snap > IR > Dk > Tsnakes > Howling > bootshine > Truestrike > Snap > Dk > tsnakes > Demo > ToD, then normal from there
idk if i am doing something wrong
i keep hearing not to clip my DoTs and not to use them when i have B4b,

so my question is....: is my dps 2 low for my ilvl? and is my opener not good enough?

[Craiger]

Hey everyone, been trying to read all the comments but they are so many lol, so heres my question
im a mnk with ilvl126, i just got my i130 ironwork weapons and most of my iron works are 130 cept for the demon gloves (wod) and the demon head/dreadwyrm head pieces.
ive been parsing for a while and im pulling 555 without food/pots on dummy
my opener is:
PB > Demo > b4b > Snap > Str pot > Snap > IR > Dk > Tsnakes > Howling > bootshine > Truestrike > Snap > Dk > tsnakes > Demo > ToD, then normal from there
idk if i am doing something wrong
i keep hearing not to clip my DoTs and not to use them when i have B4b,

so my question is....: is my dps 2 low for my ilvl? and is my opener not good enough?

I'm new to MNK, so I can't really tell you for sure... but I was looking for a DPS calculator earlier, and I came across a Japanese DPS calculator. So I looked up your gear on Ariyala(only gets ilvl125 there, so not sure if it's totally right), and then put in into that site.

http://ff14dps.appspot.com/index.htm....4.&m1=0.0.0.0

It's all in Japanese, but you should easily see what's the total DPS. It's under "木人2分DPS", and it says 563 DPS for that.

If that's right, then you're doing okay, but I want to know from someone else here with experience, if this is right... As I have no idea if that Calculator works ^^

I can say though, that food, pots and party buff (did you have party buff?), makes a very big difference in DPS.

I gotta say too, as a player who mains BLM, I really miss having a document for DPS calculations, stat weights, BiS, rotation and everything you can think of... for all other jobs. PuroStrider is hero IMO for making that, and updating it as the game progresses