The Monk Temple Reborn

[Gatimo]

awesome Monk post

[Lewena]

I have some questions to finish the thread :
1) Is it better to stacks BfB and IR or use them whenever up? It seems to be that there is no difference but just to check.
2) Do anyone has some stat weight for monks. I know usually people tend to advice deter and crit but I also know that some are advocates of SkS. I think Blockboyn (sorry for the name) feels SkS is better than Deter and crit. So why people are advising deter and crit?
3) Does nayone has a BiS gear for T5 (with soldiery now), T6, T7, T8 and T9?

For my personal culture, what's this thing about macro and not being able to queue skills?
Also in theory, which one (BfB or IR) is the most powerfull CD (taking into account auto crit of Boot)?

[ryuuken]

1) On first usage, it's obviously going to be stacked, but from there on out I tend to use them almost instantly after they are up, unless if specific mechanics are coming up that I know I will lose stacks or something silly.

2) Stat weights have been floating around for a while now, and in general it's Weapon Damage > Strength > Det > Crit > SkS (assuming you're at necessary accuracy). That was pretty solid and known for 2.1, but with 2.2 everything remains the same except the difference in stat weights for Crit and SkS are minimal, to the point where in terms of stat weight they are relatively the same. However, the end result is, SkS gives very marginal benefit right now, and in these tuned fights that last for 10~13 minutes, you can't really afford to be running dry on TP, or you will just flat out lose DPS. Simply because of this, avoiding skill speed has been the general idea. Some people also harp on about needing 400+ to get 5 skills in PB, but that's also false. I ran 356 for ages and fit 5 every time, and even dropped to like 341 or something for a bit and still managed to get 5 skills in (although this one was a little tight, but it was still reliably easy). So anyway, determination is flat out damage increase which is always good, and crit does not bring you into the problem of TP starving as SkS does, so in and of itself you have a simple decision. Even further, regardless of all of that, since itemization seems so poor (to me at least), with random stat distributions everywhere, ultimately the most important thing is the higher the ilvl, the better it is, period, regardless of secondary stats. High Allagan at 110 is just better than 100 weathered, which realistically you won't be able to upgrade to 110 for a whiiiiiiiiiiiile if you're going in an organized FC/static that splits the drops out and such. So basically, maintain accuracy needs for whatever turn, and get the highest piece of gear you can.

3) I'm at work right now and can't access the gear calculator so I can't link you a few of the proposed BiS yet, but again this goes off of what I said above, realistically you will not be obtaining i110 soldiery gear on the left side (armors) for at a minimum 8 weeks assuming you're clearing t6-8 minimum every week, if your static is rotation the drops and distributing evenly. So ultimately, accuracy cap, highest ilvl, and learn/memorize the encounters to do the best you can do, simple enough right?

Macro's on MNK are generally just frowned upon as they don't function any way that we would need them to.

And in my opinion, now that BfB is 'nerfed', and IR has lower CD and we get the traited boost, I feel more benefit from IR. Always use both though! =)

[Viridiana]

For my personal culture, what's this thing about macro and not being able to queue skills?

ryuuken pointed out one of the major MNK issues regarding macros, which is that they are extremely difficult to get to fire the exact skill you want if you include Bootshine or Dragon Kick into the macro. Because those two are always available, there's a slight chance that any macro containing them will fire them off instead of, say, Snap Punch, thus ruining your rotation. As to the question you pose about queuing skills, non-macro abilities queue slightly by default. That is, if you press the button within the last fraction of a second before the GCD actually ends, the ability still fires right when the GCD ends, leading to no downtime. Macros do not behave this way, and must be manually activated after the GCD ends. As it's pretty much impossible for a human to match machine timing at that level, macros lead to a DPS loss any time the GCD is not being hit ASAP.

[SilentGrind]

With PB: Demo -> BfB -> Snap -> IR -> Snap -> Howl -> DK -> Steel -> Snap (PB is off, no stance) -> DK -> Twin -> ToD -> Demo -> Boot -> True -> Snap...

Just a note on this opener, because you are coming out of PB, the second use of DK will not re-apply the debuff, meaning it's going to fall off around the time you are using boot/true in the next cycle. In order to keep up the DK debuff the opener should be:

With PB: Demo -> BfB -> Snap -> IR -> Snap -> Howl -> DK -> Steel -> Snap (PB is off, no stance) -> DK -> Twin -> ToD -> Demo -> DK -> Twin -> Snap...

This causes an overlap of back to back Twins in rotations resulting in a slight dps loss (50 potency) but I believe that slight loss is taken because most monks prefer using DK>Twin and Boot>True for less required moving.

If desired this could be altered by replacing the second Twin with a True, and continuing the rotation from there on with Boot > Twin > Snap...

[KaosPrimeZero]

Lewena, you think you could add the desired ACC for T1-9? I think this would be very helpful for many

Thanks

[Lewena]

@SilentGrid: I agree with you that DK debuff will be lost around Boot/True. However you losse more than 50 potency (in mean) by doing DK -> Twin -> Snap rather than Boot -> True -> Snap, depends on your crit rate. Assuming you have 20% crit rate, the mean potency of DK -> Twin -> Snap is (150+140+180)*5.5/5 = 517 whereas the mean potency of Boot -> True -> Snap = 225 + (190+180)*5.5/5 = 632, that is a 115 potency loss or a 18.2% potency loss. If you have let's say 50% crit rate (higher crit rate favors your opener as Boot does not benefit from crit), DK -> Twin -> Snap is (150+140+180)*1.25 = 587.5 potency whereas Boot -> True -> Snap = 225 + (190+180)*1.25 = 687.5 potency, that is a 100 potency loss or a 14.5% potency loss. So the proposed opener seems better to me although, in the long run, this is not much of a big difference.

For you second suggestion, I find it not worthy. As I understand it, you suggest Demo -> BfB -> Snap -> IR -> Snap -> Howl -> DK -> Steel -> Snap (PB is off, no stance) -> DK -> Twin -> ToD -> Demo -> DK -> True -> Snap... This will lead to a lot of movements as if you continue on you get Boot -> Twin -> Snap -> DK -> True -> Snap -> Boot -> Twin -> Demo -> DK -> True -> Snap -> Boot -> Twin -> Snap...


@KaosPrimeZero: actually, there are the accuracy caps from T5 to T9 in the OP. I have read about the accuracy caps for T1 to T4 but don't remember them. I am at work at the moment, I'll try find them again at home.

@ryuuken and Viridiana: thanks for the information. About macro, I am not using it at the moment but I was thinking of it. Was thinking more about a macro such as
/ac Boot
/ac Howl
/ac Steel
But it seems this wouldn't work either.

[SilentGrind]

@Lewena: Yea I agree that there would be increased movement, just stating that if a monk were able to pull it off, potentially it would be increased DPS overall.

In your potency calculation between the 2 openers, don't forget that you lose the DK debuff when calculating. Whereas you were taking the flat potency of the 2 combos (470 vs 595), the DK combo is modified by the DK debuff, whereas the Boot combo would not be. Still not enough to make it overtake your proposed opener (good find in this case!), but closes the gap a little bit.

[KaosPrimeZero]

Well i guess in reality T5-9 is all that matters. Especially considering how T5 is really easy to attain? It was more for completeness if nothing else but not essential

[LukeyP666]

The only Macro I have on my Monk is having Mercy Stroke macro'd onto Boot and DK, as I like to be able to use Steal and Howl when and if needed - Steal for stuns (and not on things like Dreadknights and the Hysteria Add on Levi XM) and Howl for AOE phases if there are any:

/micon "Bootshine" ("Dragon Kick")
/ac "Bootshine" ("Dragon Kick") <t>
/wait 1
/ac "Mercy Stroke" <t>

I have the same basis for a Macro on my Warrior and Paladin as well, except have it macro'd to Heavy Swing and Fast Blade respectively, as I find it incredibly difficult to time a Mercy Stroke as the killing blow, so figured I may as well just add it as extra DPS.