The Monk Temple Reborn

[Truedragon]

And again, you are saying nothing I do not know already.

The dreadwyrm choker has the best stats and is naturally weighted higher, but the math is off. It is not weighted 8 STR higher.
This is exactly what stat weights are originally for. So that people can compare different gears and use a value to determine which set is better and that translated into dps.

We can thus use stat weights to compare different gear and assign a value to each of them. The new stat weights however fails my logic tests as it would assign values that are simply out of the park, illogical. Therefore it seems more likely someone made errors in calculations which is most likely what had happened.
For one, stat weights dont change that dramatically over night without proper reasons. And two, using the new stat weights leads to irrational values for gear that makes no sense.

The evidence is there and already posted.

[Thrustie]

I've already stated how you're wrong. Stat weights should not be used to compare 2 individual pieces of gear in a vacuum. They should be used to compare GEAR-SETS. The weights aren't the issue - your application of them is.

[Truedragon]

I've already stated how you're wrong. Stat weights should not be used to compare 2 individual pieces of gear in a vacuum. They should be used to compare GEAR-SETS. The weights aren't the issue - your application of them is.

If you can compare a whole set, then you can compare individual pieces too. There is no difference. How does that even make any sense when you are only supposed to compare a set but not a single piece.

11 DET using 0.572 = 6.29 STR. That same 11 det in a SET, is valued the same way.

Anyway, you can youtube a bunch of monk parser videos and compare gear easily. Some have low DET, some of only stacked DET. They all hover around 600-660 dps. Now tell me this, if DET is really valued 0.572, why isnt the higher DET monk doing so much more. And if this is not what stat weights are for, then there is no point in stacking DET in the first place because your dps will still be around the same ballpark.

[Thrustie]

You could only compare individual pieces if acc didn't exist or could be weighted... But it does and it can't. It makes sense because acc requirements change depending on the fight which changes the corresponding BiS for each player.

That 11 Det is valued the same in any set but what options are available in competition to that 11 Det changes depending on the fight and requisite accuracy. What if dropping that 11 Det means you gain 16 crit and 16 skill speed somewhere else? That's why you can't just compare individual pieces.

[Truedragon]

And again, you say nothing that is new. And nothing I dispute.

Again, what is being disputed are the numbers. And ill say it bluntly. Det .572 is probably wrong. Since the evidence does not support it.

Not a single job across the game has accessories where the difference between 2 or 3 pieces is more than 8 points. None. Unless you use .572 for monk.

Not a single accessory between ilvls 70, 90, 110 has a gap between accessories that is this large. None. Unless you use .572 now for monk.

Im sorry to say this but monks arent special. Not one job has determination valued this high. Square enix does not treat monks favorably. I wish we were that lucky but we arent. In fact, monks are probably the least favorite job across the development team since monk is the only job that sucks at nearly all content except final raiding. And even there, monks no longer do the highest dps.

So to think that we have det .572, I think not. The evidence, the numbers, the parsers, the logic, notting supports this claim. And even .47 still seems excessively high as it basically says the same thing, 2 DET = 1 STR which is just too good to be true.

Ill believe it, when one monk stacked up with DET puts out a 4 min parser, without echo buff, without mercy stroke, without party buff, with minimum 535 accuracy and before heavensward expansion and does a dps that is considerably higher than ballpark monk dps between 600-660 dps. And I mean CONSIDERABLY higher. Not 670, 680, but 750+.

[Vodomir]

Lol @Truedragon ... since when does 50 STR equal 200 DPS?

I've got like 662 STR, so according to you I should be doing 2648ish DPS? (That's not even accounting for secondary stats and weapon damage)

Your math is seriously off.

[siverstorm]

snip

It's a lost cause lol. Dude's arguing for the sake of arguing. Doesn't understand how weights change at each tier of strength (which Dervy already explained), definitely doesn't understand how dps is actually measured but chooses to argue it, AND taking all that and applying arbitrary expectations of dps under some ridiculous assumption that a large amount of det somehow magically translates to 200 extra dps on top of a 600+ monk lmao.

Not to mention dude's hung up on Sunny's det value then continued to argue that value after Dervy said it might be lower.

[Truedragon]

And what you see here are 2 big talkers who can talk the talk but not walk the walk.

Ill repeat what I said before.

Ill believe it, when one monk stacked up with DET puts out a 4 min parser, without echo buff, without mercy stroke, without party buff, with minimum 535 accuracy and before heavensward expansion and does a dps that is considerably higher than ballpark monk dps between 600-660 dps. And I mean CONSIDERABLY higher. Not 670, 680, but 750+.

Go on and prove me wrong then.

Im not asking for 850, only asking for 750+. Surely with the equivalent of 50 more str you can pull 750+?
- no echo
- 4 min
- minimum 535 accuracy
- no food
- no potions
- no party buff
- no mercy stroke
- act
- and oh yea before Heavensward coz after that, it doesnt count anymore for obvious reasons.

50 str is more than going from i110 to i130 all left side fyi. Upgrading all your left from i110 to i130 only gives you like 42-44 more str, so get real if you think having the equivalent of 50 str is not going to massively boost your dps. So yea, you need to wake up like right now if you think having 50 str does not equal = massive boost to your dps.

[Dervy]

Guys, stop replying to this troll, seriously. If he doesn't want to do any reading and wishes to continue to argue without understanding the fundamental basics of jobs, stats, what stat-weights are, DPS comparisons, nor actually bother to read the topic/search reddit/youtube to source information, you should class it as trollbait and deal with it accordingly.

[Truedragon]

If having the equivalent of 50 str is not supposed to boost your dps and stat weights do not "work like that", than I ask you again: what is the point of stacking up det and comparing all that gear or gear sets if you cant even see the difference in dps output.

Go on. Dude, you are so wrong. This is exactly why stat weights are here and its proven many times over again that picking the right piece does translate to better dps.

The issue here is simply this. Is DET really changed to .572 (or .47 - both are the same because they see 2 DET as 1 STR). If DET is really changed, then why havent we seen these super dps monks by now. Surely these stacked DET monks would be so much more out dpsing us simple monks and easily crushing the high end ninjas to the point where people will say "oh yea, monks still dps king by far".