Is the 0-Click Ban also extended to the first coil of bahamut?

[subteraneanbird]

Oh, how the hell would anyone compare the two things? That's apples and oranges.

Because some people are so mad that T2 can be trivialized by legitimately healing through the enrage that they'll look for any excuse to call it unacceptable. While ignoring that S-E's position on it is "wow, didn't expect people to do that but it's cool so whatever" meaning it will likely never actually be changed.

[ispano]

Because some people are so mad that T2 can be trivialized by legitimately healing through the enrage that they'll look for any excuse to call it unacceptable. While ignoring that S-E's position on it is "wow, didn't expect people to do that but it's cool so whatever" meaning it will likely never actually be changed.

Actually, the problem a fair amount of us have with T2 isn't that you can heal through the enrage. I mean if your DPS is a little slow and you clip the enrage and heal through it to finish the fight, fine. It's that people literally WAIT for it to bypass other mechanics instead of dealing with them.

[subteraneanbird]

And? It is still 100% legitimate. It is not going anywhere. My suggestion is to just deal with it? good lord.

[ispano]

And? It is still 100% legitimate. It is not going anywhere. My suggestion is to just deal with it? good lord.

You missed the point. It creates an issue in that players would rather find a way to bypass a fight's mechanics instead of deal with it properly. If they can't "cheese" the fight in some way, it's too much and they give up. It's bad precedence, which is why many of us are glad 6-9 have helped remedy it.

Another note. I won't bash or harass anyone for doing it that way. When I needed to get T2 done after my first static died, I always asked people which method they would do for T2, and decline if they did it that way so as to not waste my or their time. And yet I get told to "get off my high horse" for being that way. So in my experience, people on the other side are just as bitter.

So, long story short? People who wish to "abuse" the enrage that way, can "deal with it" in regards to people not liking it or supporting it.

[Ooshima]

TBH, the only reason why people who could find a team to pass rot on T2 tend not to do the soft enrage method is because rot passing, when done right, is faster to complete T2.

Any other argument is purely personal views, nothing else. I don't get why people are still fighting over this. As long as SE says it isn't illegal, then it's fine.

A handful of fights in this game have mechanics that can trivialized fully or part-thereof. Titan HM, you could skip a few bombs before heart phase if your DPS is up there. Heart phase you could skip the circle bombs if you can break the heart before he summons them. In Ifrit EX, the searing wind can be trivialized by having a full ranged DPS team. T5, your MT walks into conflag to avoid DS which the whole infirmity debuff mechanic is meant for a tank swap. In T6, if you have sufficient DPS, you can forget about slugs and just burn the boss down. In T8, brainjack had the intention of a tank swap but it can be trivialized by placing a DPS close to your solo tank.

Are all these illegitimate ways to deal with the fight? SE doesn't say so. One shouldn't be that narrow minded and think that there is only one single way to clear a fight, which is to deal with every single intended mechanic. Honestly, all these different strats impresses me, it shows that people think out of the box and have creativity. As long as they clear the fight legitimately as deemed by SE, I couldn't care less if they skip mechanics or not.

[ispano]

TBH, the only reason why people who could find a team to pass rot on T2 tend not to do the soft enrage method is because rot passing, when done right, is faster to complete T2.

Any other argument is purely personal views, nothing else. I don't get why people are still fighting over this. As long as SE says it isn't illegal, then it's fine.

A handful of fights in this game have mechanics that can trivialized fully or part-thereof. Titan HM, you could skip a few bombs before heart phase if your DPS is up there. Heart phase you could skip the circle bombs if you can break the heart before he summons them. In Ifrit EX, the searing wind can be trivialized by having a full ranged DPS team. T5, your MT walks into conflag to avoid DS which the whole infirmity debuff mechanic is meant for a tank swap. In T6, if you have sufficient DPS, you can forget about slugs and just burn the boss down. In T8, brainjack had the intention of a tank swap but it can be trivialized by placing a DPS close to your solo tank.

Are all these illegitimate ways to deal with the fight? SE doesn't say so. One shouldn't be that narrow minded and think that there is only one single way to clear a fight, which is to deal with every single intended mechanic. Honestly, all these different strats impresses me, it shows that people think out of the box and have creativity. As long as they clear the fight legitimately as deemed by SE, I couldn't care less if they skip mechanics or not.

Again, I said I don't harass or such anyone who does it. Also SE will never say it was illegitimate or not. More than likely(not fact, just based on what they've done in the past) they saw people using it and noticed the mistake, and since it was their mistake, left it as is.

Lastly, there's a large difference between your examples and what's done on T2. T2 enrage pretty much bypasses ALL of ADS' mechanics, not skipping phases or a single mechanic. T2 enrage you don't deal with the laser, or repelling cannons, or tank swap or the various abilities he has depending on your route. Not just one mechanic, all of them.

[Sapphic]

4 it becomes a tiny bit hairy, but even with 3 melee it's easily doable. The distance rot passes and the distance between the two borders of ADS' Flank/Rear(ie on both sides) is plenty to avoid accidentally passing it to someone early. This is why I said people have to know what they're doing.

Which is exactly my point XD a Line of ranged who side step then back, then group up, or melee who have to watch positioning, Rot and then having to move out of melee to pass the rot puts more pressure on the melee than the ranged thus increasing chance of failure.

[subteraneanbird]

There's one mechanic you seem loathe to admit isn't possible to skip in T2, due to what is obviously a personal bias: the buffs. You still have to pick the right nodes to take to ensure you don't earn any buffs that complicate the fight. I've seen parties wipe T2 because they have 3 casters and instead of picking the safer route that would add the entirely harmless Blunt Resistance buff they kill the Disposal Node and add Magic Resistance. Ergo, they lowered their DPS extremely and could no longer pass the check. Additionally, T2 enrage is a method that STILL requires a lot from healers (if you think it's just "spamming" abilities, you're wrong) and again, I've seen wipes due to singular tiny mistakes. It's pretty clear your argument stems from a personal bias that amounts to "I don't like T2 enrage, therefore it's bad" regardless of the actual realities. As was said, about the only reason to go for Rot is it is slightly shorter, due to not waiting 6-7 minutes having a tea party.

[ispano]

There's one mechanic you seem loathe to admit isn't possible to skip in T2, due to what is obviously a personal bias: the buffs. You still have to pick the right nodes to take to ensure you don't earn any buffs that complicate the fight.

You can say this as much as you want, it still pretty much invalidates the whole fight's mechanics. There's really nothing you can counter that with because that's exactly what it does. You can give your opinion or view of that, but it doesn't change what's happening. In any other game, if people find a way to avoid most or all of a fight's mechanics like this, the fight gets fixed.

[i2agnarok]

In any other game, if people find a way to avoid most or all of a fight's mechanics like this, the fight gets fixed.

I don't know about that.
Its definitely unintended.
But if they really wanted to fix it, they would have.
They fixed the LoS exploit to avoid Doom in Qarn.
Rot is an interesting mechanic.
However, its annoying to newcomers.
I don't mind it if its me and another random DRG.
MNKs on the other hand..... >_>
They made it so if you hit Enrage, you wouldn't also have to deal with Rot.
They just didn't expect people to take advantage.
Promotes creativity, imo.
Sometimes encourages laziness, but whatev.
If Enrage weren't around, the number of all ranged parties would come back up again.
It is what it is.
There's no point in changing it now.