Level cap increase every 1-2 years.

[AuctionGirl]

Every argument here fails to think about the company itself, and how sustainable it would be to cater to those FEW hardcore FFXI people who think 1 hard cap and horizontal progression is the key to success.

Lets use FFXI history as an example... at one time FFXI has subs of up to 2 million characters. 2-3 years later they are down to 500k 25% of their existing subs... why did 75% of the people quit the game? Because there was no longer character progression. Majority of players like to experience new content all the time and see some character progression.

Some of the arguments on here about horizontal progression are pure selfish and don't think about the majority of players.

Failed Horizontal Progression Examples:

Statement: You haven't experienced all the content unless you have capped every job/class...
Rebuttal: 75% of players don't like to repeat the content as often as the hard cores do or even play every class, and don't care about getting that 1 more STR on a piece of equipment.

Statement: You can add dungeons to a game without raising the cap and there is more things to do.
Rebuttal: Semi-true in your example, but the quicker you can get to do those new areas/dungeons, the sooner the content becomes invalid. Cap increases help make sure this content stays relevant longer. People will need to spend time to get to the new caps to experience these new places. This is good for the company which people pay for time to do these. If you can automatically just do this without having to grow into it, you have failed.

Statement: You can add new recipes and other things to suffice other types of players than just battle.
Rebuttal: If you add in 100 recipes that have no value in the game at all, did it do any good at all to add them? Having a rank increase allows for valuable new synths in the game, new ranks for people to achieve and more...

I can go on and on about this, and the facts are in the numbers of subs... why do people stay at WoW? why do they have 10 million subs? Think about it, only a few hard core people who become to attached to what they have vs what they could have are the ones against vertical progression.

This game will die quicker and be limited quicker if they stick to horizontal, vertical is the only way they can keep a game alive for a long long time. and don't use FFXI as an example, it failed when the average player doesn't stay for more than a year... Proof is in the subs. I had many of my friends play FFXI and most quit in 6 months because they experienced all the content (that they were interested in) and moved onto other games. They have been WoW customers for 6+ years because new content, new challenges are always coming.

Don't limit yourself SE... go vertical (small progression without killing off existing content as quickly) on a SET TIME FRAME! people will expect these cool changes, it helps people keeping their characters for these new changes, new areas, new things. Its all about business, not personal feelings.

[danny52844]

Every argument here fails to think about the company itself, and how sustainable it would be to cater to those FEW hardcore FFXI people who think 1 hard cap and horizontal progression is the key to success.

Lets use FFXI history as an example... at one time FFXI has subs of up to 2 million characters. 2-3 years later they are down to 500k 25% of their existing subs... why did 75% of the people quit the game? Because there was no longer character progression. Majority of players like to experience new content all the time and see some character progression.

Some of the arguments on here about horizontal progression are pure selfish and don't think about the majority of players.

Failed Horizontal Progression Examples:

Statement: You haven't experienced all the content unless you have capped every job/class...
Rebuttal: 75% of players don't like to repeat the content as often as the hard cores do or even play every class, and don't care about getting that 1 more STR on a piece of equipment.

Statement: You can add dungeons to a game without raising the cap and there is more things to do.
Rebuttal: Semi-true in your example, but the quicker you can get to do those new areas/dungeons, the sooner the content becomes invalid. Cap increases help make sure this content stays relevant longer. People will need to spend time to get to the new caps to experience these new places. This is good for the company which people pay for time to do these. If you can automatically just do this without having to grow into it, you have failed.

Statement: You can add new recipes and other things to suffice other types of players than just battle.
Rebuttal: If you add in 100 recipes that have no value in the game at all, did it do any good at all to add them? Having a rank increase allows for valuable new synths in the game, new ranks for people to achieve and more...

I can go on and on about this, and the facts are in the numbers of subs... why do people stay at WoW? why do they have 10 million subs? Think about it, only a few hard core people who become to attached to what they have vs what they could have are the ones against vertical progression.

This game will die quicker and be limited quicker if they stick to horizontal, vertical is the only way they can keep a game alive for a long long time. and don't use FFXI as an example, it failed when the average player doesn't stay for more than a year... Proof is in the subs. I had many of my friends play FFXI and most quit in 6 months because they experienced all the content (that they were interested in) and moved onto other games. They have been WoW customers for 6+ years because new content, new challenges are always coming.

Don't limit yourself SE... go vertical (small progression without killing off existing content as quickly) on a SET TIME FRAME! people will expect these cool changes, it helps people keeping their characters for these new changes, new areas, new things. Its all about business, not personal feelings.

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

unless they plan to raise the cap by like 50 lvs every time ur just going to get cap within a few weeks thus making all the previous stuff obsolete while only making u have to wait 2 weeks to start doing the new stuff making it obsolete along with everything else 2 weeks later than it would if u just kept the lvs the same just instead this time ull only have the new end game to do not the old stuff

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

[AuctionGirl]

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]unless they plan to raise the cap by like 50 lvs every time ur just going to get cap within a few weeks thus making all the previous stuff obsolete while only making u have to wait 2 weeks to start doing the new stuff making it obsolete along with everything else 2 weeks later than it would if u just kept the lvs the same just instead this time ull only have the new end game to do not the old stuff

[Removed by Moderator according to the FINAL FANTASY XIV FORUM Guidelines.]

So if my rebuttals are so bad, then come up with some other reason why horizontal progression doesn't limit growth of the game.

Another statement: You can add in new weapons/armor that doesn't negate the existing.
Rebuttal: If you add in new weapons that are better, you just negated the old content anyways, and if you add in something that isn't better. Then why even get it? Your limited on inventory spaces anyways... With vertical progression, you will need these new weapons and armors, new recipes, new gathering locations/materials.

The problem with horizontal progression, is you are limiting the game to potential growth. Horizontal can only go so wide before it must go vertical. If you wait too long to go vertical, you lose all the players who don't like to repeat the same content 1000 times, and then you lose all the people who did and feel like they accomplished something by having +1 STR items over everyone else. If you do the merit system like FFXI, you are negating old content anyways, its another form of vertical progression, except the fact that now those old Rank 75 things are now super easy because of those merits.

People who had level 100 crafting after 1 year of the game, still had level 100 crafting after 7 years of the game. They were done crafting. With vertical progression, you can keep all players growing.

Here is an idea on how to keep older content relative... make existing weapons/armors upgradable by new and existing items. Capped areas, and update the existing content with new expansions (rank increases).

So list out all the pro's and con's for horizontal progression, and guaranteed that vertical progression pro's and con's will outweigh everything horizontal does (from a business perspective)

[darkstarpoet1]

So if my rebuttals are so bad, then come up with some other reason why horizontal progression doesn't limit growth of the game.

Another statement: You can add in new weapons/armor that doesn't negate the existing.
Rebuttal: If you add in new weapons that are better, you just negated the old content anyways, and if you add in something that isn't better. Then why even get it? Your limited on inventory spaces anyways... With vertical progression, you will need these new weapons and armors, new recipes, new gathering locations/materials.

The problem with horizontal progression, is you are limiting the game to potential growth. Horizontal can only go so wide before it must go vertical. If you wait too long to go vertical, you lose all the players who don't like to repeat the same content 1000 times, and then you lose all the people who did and feel like they accomplished something by having +1 STR items over everyone else. If you do the merit system like FFXI, you are negating old content anyways, its another form of vertical progression, except the fact that now those old Rank 75 things are now super easy because of those merits.

People who had level 100 crafting after 1 year of the game, still had level 100 crafting after 7 years of the game. They were done crafting. With vertical progression, you can keep all players growing.

Here is an idea on how to keep older content relative... make existing weapons/armors upgradable by new and existing items. Capped areas, and update the existing content with new expansions (rank increases).

So list out all the pro's and con's for horizontal progression, and guaranteed that vertical progression pro's and con's will outweigh everything horizontal does (from a business perspective)

what part is hard to understand that most people do not want true horizontal. i do not want it to stay at r50 forever, but i do not think a set time frame on when to increase caps ia a good way to keep players involved. yeah i would like to see the cap raised in a year or 2 by a few levels, but it should stay there for a while and not say a year or so later it increases again. that ruins the chances at any long term goals and becomes a constant grind throughout the lifetime of the game.

grinding levels are not what will keep a person there long term. it is the content and it doesn't matter if it is at the same cap or higher cap, but things to do are what people need.

[weeble]

what part is hard to understand that most people do not want true horizontal. i do not want it to stay at r50 forever, but i do not think a set time frame on when to increase caps ia a good way to keep players involved. yeah i would like to see the cap raised in a year or 2 by a few levels, but it should stay there for a while and not say a year or so later it increases again. that ruins the chances at any long term goals and becomes a constant grind throughout the lifetime of the game.

grinding levels are not what will keep a person there long term. it is the content and it doesn't matter if it is at the same cap or higher cap, but things to do are what people need.

dynmaisis, sky, sea, enerjiah,bs,ks, limbus, nyzle, salvage, znm, nm, hnm, assault and whatever else i missed lol, this was all doable all week. i was doing all this in the same week, events pretty much everyday, some days 2-3events. weither u had to or not, or want to or not, you didn't have to do it all, but hell if no cap raise was the reason we had all this to do every week rather then just 1thing and logging out.

i don't play wow but em don't they all log in twice a week to do a dungeon and log out again? i know casual players might like this cause they can quickly hit max and then log in twice a week and still feel like they are gaming. but being able to have a choice to do all these options even all on same day or 2 is where it's at without the cap raises.

besides you really think se is gonna come out with sooooo much content that we won't be bored every month? they are already putting out content so slow that even full expansions won't keep a player not bored after a month, most people leveled half the classes and finished there crafting witch is the main part of time constraint inbetween content. granted content will eventually (what a year from now?) start comming out faster, but either way like i said lot of players are gonna still be waiting for content. and yeah i know i'm bout to get this one sentence craped on cause someone gonna say i still got lots to do, but anyway.

[darkstarpoet1]

[/B]



dynmaisis, sky, sea, enerjiah,bs,ks, limbus, nyzle, salvage, znm, nm, hnm, assault and whatever else i missed lol, this was all doable all week. i was doing all this in the same week, events pretty much everyday, some days 2-3events. weither u had to or not, or want to or not, you didn't have to do it all, but hell if no cap raise was the reason we had all this to do every week rather then just 1thing and logging out.

i don't play wow but em don't they all log in twice a week to do a dungeon and log out again? i know casual players might like this cause they can quickly hit max and then log in twice a week and still feel like they are gaming. but being able to have a choice to do all these options even all on same day or 2 is where it's at without the cap raises.

besides you really think se is gonna come out with sooooo much content that we won't be bored every month? they are already putting out content so slow that even full expansions won't keep a player not bored after a month, most people leveled half the classes and finished there crafting witch is the main part of time constraint inbetween content. granted content will eventually (what a year from now?) start comming out faster, but either way like i said lot of players are gonna still be waiting for content. and yeah i know i'm bout to get this one sentence craped on cause someone gonna say i still got lots to do, but anyway.

i actually agree with you and you must have misunderstood what i was meaning. they kept saying that raising the cap is the only way to keep content fresh. i disagree and like i said content regardless of if it is for a 50 or for a 75 is new content.

i figured eventually the cap would be raised to 75. i was figuring maybe 30 days to a year after the ps3 version gets released. i really figure the first big expansion will wait til then as well. with the first big expansion should come some long term goals and items. this would give people a reason to want to move past the cap and expand their character.

i just feel since we all know 50 is a low starting point it will have to increase, but do not feel it should be done on a yearly or bi-yearly basis. i just feel the first increase should be a major one and that it should stay there until they have done everything they can to keep the content horizontal from there. after that point i can understand a move, but don not feel it should be a set time frame on making a move. personally, i only believe the cap was r50 at the start because they didn't want us getting too far ahead of their ps3 players, but didn't expect it to take a year and still no release on the horizon.


i admit freely this is just going off feelings and i have no proof to back any of it up. i just wanted to actually explain what i meant.