Level cap increase every 1-2 years.

[AuctionGirl]

Horizontal progression has limits, and once those limits are exceeded you will see playerbases just falling off, because repeating the same content is lame. So what if they add in 3 new dungeons in horizontal progression and only 1 of the pieces of weapons/armor are of use because it doesnt benefit you at all. What good did this horizontal progression do?

When you are stuck at a certain rank, you are limited with development and ideas on what you can do with those ranks. Forget adding in new skills that would destroy previous content, you will hear bitching regardless. Vertical progression gives developers and players always something new to think about and do.

With vertical progression, it creates a need to grind on "NEW" mobs, NEW areas, NEW Content, NEW Dungeons, NEW items, NEW everything for those new ranks...

With horizontal progression, you have no need to grind or rank on new mobs, no need to goto new areas, new dungeons may be pointless and new items may/may not be of any use to you... Horizontal progression are for LAZY developers, LAZY players, and LAZY altogether.

Vertical progression is the only thing that keeps NEW alive... OLD will become OLD anyways, and eventually no one wants to do it. Might as well keep NEW alive, and NEW stuff to do...

[danny52844]

Horizontal progression has limits, and once those limits are exceeded you will see playerbases just falling off, because repeating the same content is lame. So what if they add in 3 new dungeons in horizontal progression and only 1 of the pieces of weapons/armor are of use because it doesnt benefit you at all. What good did this horizontal progression do?

When you are stuck at a certain rank, you are limited with development and ideas on what you can do with those ranks. Forget adding in new skills that would destroy previous content, you will hear bitching regardless. Vertical progression gives developers and players always something new to think about and do.

With vertical progression, it creates a need to grind on "NEW" mobs, NEW areas, NEW Content, NEW Dungeons, NEW items, NEW everything for those new ranks...

With horizontal progression, you have no need to grind or rank on new mobs, no need to goto new areas, new dungeons may be pointless and new items may/may not be of any use to you... Horizontal progression are for LAZY developers, LAZY players, and LAZY altogether.

Vertical progression is the only thing that keeps NEW alive... OLD will become OLD anyways, and eventually no one wants to do it. Might as well keep NEW alive, and NEW stuff to do...

thats a perfect way to think of it as long as u have the mindset of other MMO's with FF14 u can play as everything so yes thier might be 1 peice for this job 1 for that other job but add it up thats alot of peices u can get from just 1 place and they dont even have to give items to every job because ppl arnt limited to just 1 job thats y this game can have wonderfull horizontal leveling

[AuctionGirl]

thats a perfect way to think of it as long as u have the mindset of other MMO's with FF14 u can play as everything so yes thier might be 1 peice for this job 1 for that other job but add it up thats alot of peices u can get from just 1 place and they dont even have to give items to every job because ppl arnt limited to just 1 job thats y this game can have wonderfull vertical leveling

While I semi-agree with your comment, you fail to recognize not everyone likes to play every job out there, nor do they want to repeat the same content 10000 times. You are talking about a small minority that like to repeat the same stuff, or care to have the VERY best of everything, and will play something 10000 times to get it. MMO's in the end are about making money and more money in satisfying more of your audience. Look at XI for example, yes it did well, but not as well as it could have if the content never ended, and new levels, new areas etc... Blame stale old content/stuff to get/do for people quitting. Few players stuck around even through this because they felt like leaving the game, they would lose some kinda FAKE status.

XI did horizontal progression well, and eventually they hit a cap. This is where the playerbase kept falling off.

Vertical progression is the key to keeping things fresh and new. Vertical too fast or without regards to past content will also kill off a game, but if you didnt have to work 5 years to get some item, you are less attached, and you are looking forward to the new items to get...

If you think we should set a limit and go horizontal, set a limit of rank 9999, and just dont make content for it until later.. cap every area with a certain rank so you cant exceed it, but know that you will never reach the end rank in the game and your character will always be growing.

Character growth is one of the best parts of MMO's. Everyone loves to see new ranks, new abilities, new stuff. It creates new strategies.

[Ichi]

I don't think the discussion here is about weather the cap should or should not be increased at all (clearly that is not what is being discussed), but weather it should be increased frequently or rarely? And to that effect what value of time are we actually talking about.... It's clear from all this arguing and the thread before it that an actual number value needs to be assessed.

The question is how long should it be before cap increases? Do you have a preferred range? 1-3 years? 3-5 years? or is your idea more specific? 6 months? Can you provide objective reasoning as to why it should be as long as you think it should be? These are the questions that would make a difference, not this constant bickering.

BTW defining to people what things like Horizontal Progression and Vertical Progression actually 'are' and what they 'do' is not only partially subjective but totally insulting considering nobody asked you, so you must be assuming ignorance.

Here's my answer the gap should be 3 expansions wide at least with an exception for the first cap raise. I feel that this assessment is sufficiently appropriate because it provides ample time to increase complexity before raising the roof to allow more space to add even more complexity. If the roof is being raised to frequently then there is never any complexity to enjoy as there is enough space for all the elements to stretch out and breathe.

The average 'successful' mmo has a lifespan of 8~10 expansions (I'm talking about games like ffxi wow eq ultima-online DaoC) so if the roof is raised 3 times in 10 expansions we have a rate of vertical expansions of 1/3 (with a remainder of the first cap raise) and a rate of Horizontal expansion of 3. the product of which is the happy number 1.

This is just my opinion and clearly more horizontally inclined than vertically but it's my assumption that that isn't at all what we're really trying to argue. We're all smart enough to know that we need both its just at what rate and values do we need them how much should they lean to which direction, i doubt anyone here is so naive as to think the game should raise cap every 5 months or never at all.

[Tezz_Xivectro]

I believe if the ultimate level cap is Lv.99 (like most FF's) then about a year or 2 from now we should start the journey to a mid point. Around Lv.75. Then the next few years should go to 99. Not this 5-10 levels every 6 months or year crap.

[Ichi]

I believe if the ultimate level cap is Lv.99 (like most FF's) then about a year or 2 from now we should start the journey to a mid point. Around Lv.75. Then the next few years should go to 99. Not this 5-10 levels every 6 months or year crap.

thank you. please more answers like this so we can actually infer and find a solution.

[danny52844]

While I semi-agree with your comment, you fail to recognize not everyone likes to play every job out there, nor do they want to repeat the same content 10000 times. You are talking about a small minority that like to repeat the same stuff, or care to have the VERY best of everything, and will play something 10000 times to get it. MMO's in the end are about making money and more money in satisfying more of your audience. Look at XI for example, yes it did well, but not as well as it could have if the content never ended, and new levels, new areas etc... Blame stale old content/stuff to get/do for people quitting. Few players stuck around even through this because they felt like leaving the game, they would lose some kinda FAKE status.

XI did horizontal progression well, and eventually they hit a cap. This is where the playerbase kept falling off.

Vertical progression is the key to keeping things fresh and new. Vertical too fast or without regards to past content will also kill off a game, but if you didnt have to work 5 years to get some item, you are less attached, and you are looking forward to the new items to get...

If you think we should set a limit and go horizontal, set a limit of rank 9999, and just dont make content for it until later.. cap every area with a certain rank so you cant exceed it, but know that you will never reach the end rank in the game and your character will always be growing.

Character growth is one of the best parts of MMO's. Everyone loves to see new ranks, new abilities, new stuff. It creates new strategies.

i dont get ur ppls arguement why cant they just keep adding dungeons or w/e to keep it fresh and yet we still have the old dungeons available that still give us good stuff so yes we keep doing the old dungeons over and over again but we also get new dungeons again and again
so without the old stuff going out of date they just have more and more on end game to do

[AuctionGirl]

The longer you wait before rank increases the more attached someone becomes to their items.. resulting in it being harder to raise the caps...

6 months 5 ranks is a good amount.. 5 ranks doesn't kill old content, but keeps things growing. if you wait 1-2 years then raise it 10-20 ranks, you get the reaction of you just killed off X,Y,Z... because they were too relevant for the longest time.

If you are constantly on a fixed time increasing the ranks, people know, dont get attached and will be ready for the next content when it comes.

6 months, 5 ranks is what I feel would be best... gives even the casual player enough time to rank up 5 ranks in the 6 months time on a few classes.

[Jynx]

I have nothing against level cap raises, gives me something new to strive for instead of stagnating. Once they reach the final level cap 99 "I'm assuming" they will work on more vertical progression systems.

[alexi14]

FFXI endgame was epic because you were literally fighting gods. The hardest mobs in the game.

So, I'm going to get 50 and pwn some gods, just to find out 2 years later that I can solo them?

What about.. what are those parties called where you get points AFTER your 75.


In a way though.. I do agree that eventually everyone will be max level.. and then what......

Sooooo it's difficult to think about.

Maybe if they just stick to adding new jobs every year or add new skills that you have to work for. Say lnc could do some epic long quest that might take months to complete, and in the end he gets the ability to jump 50 feet in the air and have some super rare ability.

Thats like that.