Level cap increase every 1-2 years.

[Rjain]

I'm not analyzing you. I'm deconstructing your arguments based on the premise that though they sound good, they really aren't.

You implied I didn't understand your analogies which wasn't true. But it doesn't suddenly give your arguments more weight either.

You could have stopped at saying you were in favor of an increasing level cap and been done with it, but then you insisted on using weak arguments to promote it. And when I pointed out that your arguments were weak you bluffed up and said apparently I don't understand what you are saying.

I'm not aiming to sound intellectual, I'm just debating my opinion. In this case it involves showing the weaknesses in opposing arguments. That's part of how a debate works.

If that makes me a tit, so be it.

Your deconstruction of my arguments again did not grasp any significant measure of what I was trying to convey nor were they accurate. The reason I had stated that I'd be done with the discussion is because I felt I'm probably not conveying the point clearly enough, not because I think you're dumb. Considering the fact that wasting this much time on such a topic is not constructive in the least I'd rather be done with it.

There's pros and cons to both sides. I see pros to your side, I also see some severe cons which would make me not want to experience that sort of gameplay. Whether or not you see pros and cons to my side point is you disagree with me we made our points let it end with that.

[Ferth]

Your deconstruction of my arguments again did not grasp any significant measure of what I was trying to convey nor were they accurate. The reason I had stated that I'd be done with the discussion is because I felt I'm probably not conveying the point clearly enough, not because I think you're dumb. Considering the fact that wasting this much time on such a topic is not constructive in the least I'd rather be done with it.

There's pros and cons to both sides. I see pros to your side, I also see some severe cons which would make me not want to experience that sort of gameplay. Whether or not you see pros and cons to my side point is you disagree with me we made our points let it end with that.

Fair enough.

I can agree to disagree.

[Tigercub]

Your deconstruction of my arguments again did not grasp any significant measure of what I was trying to convey nor were they accurate. The reason I had stated that I'd be done with the discussion is because I felt I'm probably not conveying the point clearly enough, not because I think you're dumb. Considering the fact that wasting this much time on such a topic is not constructive in the least I'd rather be done with it.

There's pros and cons to both sides. I see pros to your side, I also see some severe cons which would make me not want to experience that sort of gameplay. Whether or not you see pros and cons to my side point is you disagree with me we made our points let it end with that.

Agreed ^^
Mostly I'm only here debating that our side of the argument shouldn't just be brushed aside and called ridiculous, which some people have been doing. While I share Ferth's side of the debate, I don't share in any personal attacks he may have made. I respect your opinion, just as I'd hope you'd respect mine.

I just got kind of sick of people insinuating that my opinions were baseless or that the reason I didn't like the level increase in FFXI was because I ragequit over some loot, when in fact it was because the level increase all but forced me to participate in a piece of content which I didn't enjoy playing, and made the content I did enjoy mostly redundant.

[Ferth]

If I made comments that seemed like personal attacks I apologize. My main point was that alot of your arguments while being valid opinions, didn't argue your case for increasing level caps.

I agree wholeheartedly that the experiences you undergo while trying to get the items are more valuable in most cases than the items themselves, but I feel that is true in either situation.

I'm also fully aware that eventually everything will change, whether they are changes I like or not is strictly a personal matter. So again I don't consider it an argument in favor of either option.

I respect your opinion, even though I disagree with it. I just didn't see your arguments as defending your point, regardless of the validity of your arguments in their own right.

[weeble]

nothing u just said i can agree with at all shipp exept how they screwed up kirin battles making them 1min kills. outside that your far from truth and it's all opinions.

[Shipp]

nothing u just said i can agree with at all shipp exept how they screwed up kirin battles making them 1min kills. outside that your far from truth and it's all opinions.

Please tell me how I'm far from the truth. How many people whined and complained about not having a level cap increase -while- they were grinding for their gear? Tons and tons of people, especially when CoP launched. How many people whined when a level cap increase was sprung upon them out of the blue, AFTER they spent years obtaining their shinies? Near the whole player base. It's not even the same game now, because SE did not implement a correct system. You either have a static high level, or you constantly raise the cap. You do not tell your playerbase it will never happen due to mechanics and then laugh in their faces by throwing 20 levels at them years later, after they spent months of playtime gearing their character and every job.

That -will- happen in XIV if they don't increase caps. It will happen with any MMO. People simply get tired of grinding for side-grades and quit. The people who would quit because of a level increase, which is pretty much a staple of MMOs, are in the minority here. People who want 5+ year old content to be relevant, are in the minority of the MMO world.

This exact same thing happened in WoW during Cata. "Oh boohoo, no more ZG/ZA, but I still run that just for fun Blizzard! Bring it back!" So much backlash that they retuned them to 85 heroics and now the player base is still complaining? Want to know why? They didn't like the instance, they liked the loot, the mounts, to be specific. They didn't care about the lore of the place. They didn't care about the encounters. They cared about mounts and now they whine since they can't solo those mounts anymore, but have to run it as relevant content.

Substitute mounts with AF2, relics, and mats to craft level 70+ endgame gear in XI. Just like in WoW, people didn't do out-dated content because they liked it (the majority I'm talking about), they did it because they got something out of it. The same thing applied to Dyna, sky, and sea (to a lesser extent). By the time I quit in 2007, most people were sick and tired of sky and sea. I was sick of sea the minute I had to traverse the castle with TS mobs. I came back in 2009, and then again in the beginning of 2010. Barely any was doing sky or sea. Only some people were doing them once a blue moon for a person who had to start over and needed something. Same for kings. Why? Because now we have this instanced gear which is essentially an up-grade for many pieces, thus already making sky/sea irrelevant.

Sky had its day. Let's leave 2003-2005ish content die with dignity please. If it's truly about the zone being cool and the bosses being cool, then again, that died with ToAU and 45 second Kirin battles. And again, you could still go back and do them for fun.

The out-gearing content excuse was played in WoW too. The otherside is always greener. Vanilla top tier raid gear was being replaced by greens in outlands. People HATED this, because of the same thing FF players are talking about. All this hard work to be replaced by essentially trash gear over night. What happened over these players whining? WoTLK made sure that if you were in epics by the end of BC (even PvP epics), then you won't have to even think about gear until you're 75+. Hurray, now the playerbase complains because they are tired of looking at the same gear that they have been for months. This is why it was changed back to the "greens replace purples" philosophy in Cata. And no, that's not what is slowly killing WoW, the lack of content coming at a snail's pace (sounds familiar), the overall boring-ness of the expac, and several other factors are why Blizzard has lost 600,000 subs in Cata. Gear, I assure you, is not one of them.

Again, I'm not trying to troll at all, I honestly just want to know what you think I'm wrong about, Weeble. Sure, some things are my opinion. I don't deny that. However, this whole topic boils down to opinions from the player base, and much of my post was the reality of FFXI and not the rose-colored nostalgic memories of people on here.

[danny52844]

Please tell me how I'm far from the truth. How many people whined and complained about not having a level cap increase -while- they were grinding for their gear? Tons and tons of people, especially when CoP launched. How many people whined when a level cap increase was sprung upon them out of the blue, AFTER they spent years obtaining their shinies? Near the whole player base. It's not even the same game now, because SE did not implement a correct system. You either have a static high level, or you constantly raise the cap. You do not tell your playerbase it will never happen due to mechanics and then laugh in their faces by throwing 20 levels at them years later, after they spent months of playtime gearing their character and every job.

That -will- happen in XIV if they don't increase caps. It will happen with any MMO. People simply get tired of grinding for side-grades and quit. The people who would quit because of a level increase, which is pretty much a staple of MMOs, are in the minority here. People who want 5+ year old content to be relevant, are in the minority of the MMO world.

This exact same thing happened in WoW during Cata. "Oh boohoo, no more ZG/ZA, but I still run that just for fun Blizzard! Bring it back!" So much backlash that they retuned them to 85 heroics and now the player base is still complaining? Want to know why? They didn't like the instance, they liked the loot, the mounts, to be specific. They didn't care about the lore of the place. They didn't care about the encounters. They cared about mounts and now they whine since they can't solo those mounts anymore, but have to run it as relevant content.

Substitute mounts with AF2, relics, and mats to craft level 70+ endgame gear in XI. Just like in WoW, people didn't do out-dated content because they liked it (the majority I'm talking about), they did it because they got something out of it. The same thing applied to Dyna, sky, and sea (to a lesser extent). By the time I quit in 2007, most people were sick and tired of sky and sea. I was sick of sea the minute I had to traverse the castle with TS mobs. I came back in 2009, and then again in the beginning of 2010. Barely any was doing sky or sea. Only some people were doing them once a blue moon for a person who had to start over and needed something. Same for kings. Why? Because now we have this instanced gear which is essentially an up-grade for many pieces, thus already making sky/sea irrelevant.

Sky had its day. Let's leave 2003-2005ish content die with dignity please. If it's truly about the zone being cool and the bosses being cool, then again, that died with ToAU and 45 second Kirin battles. And again, you could still go back and do them for fun.

The out-gearing content excuse was played in WoW too. The otherside is always greener. Vanilla top tier raid gear was being replaced by greens in outlands. People HATED this, because of the same thing FF players are talking about. All this hard work to be replaced by essentially trash gear over night. What happened over these players whining? WoTLK made sure that if you were in epics by the end of BC (even PvP epics), then you won't have to even think about gear until you're 75+. Hurray, now the playerbase complains because they are tired of looking at the same gear that they have been for months. This is why it was changed back to the "greens replace purples" philosophy in Cata. And no, that's not what is slowly killing WoW, the lack of content coming at a snail's pace (sounds familiar), the overall boring-ness of the expac, and several other factors are why Blizzard has lost 600,000 subs in Cata. Gear, I assure you, is not one of them.

Again, I'm not trying to troll at all, I honestly just want to know what you think I'm wrong about, Weeble. Sure, some things are my opinion. I don't deny that. However, this whole topic boils down to opinions from the player base, and much of my post was the reality of FFXI and not the rose-colored nostalgic memories of people on here.

plz tell me how is grinding for sidegrades and grinding for upgrades any different?

[Murugan]

plz tell me how is grinding for sidegrades and grinding for upgrades any different?

They aren't except one destroys content for new and old players alike, while the other allows it co-exist.

The people with rose colored glasses here are those who think people actually play low-mid level group/raid content. People grind to whatever the new cap is and skip over it. The result is your game after expansion IS the expansion, and that is just a silly way to design an MMO when it isn't necessary in order to keep people who have been playing all along progressing.

[Shipp]

plz tell me how is grinding for sidegrades and grinding for upgrades any different?

Because when you grind for upgrades, the sky is the limit, and you're actually advancing. You are not advancing by making different gear with nearly the same stats. Eventually, all of those minor +1 to stats on new gear is going to equal +10, which happened in XI. Guess what? You no longer have side-grades, you have upgrades. If you have upgrades, even with a static cap, you're still making old content irrelevant.

[weeble]

changing content every 1-2years is like trying to use the name of a good movie to make a part 2 that is nothing at all like it. within a few of these changes you aren't even playing the same game, and on top that the amount of story and content in it is half that. might as well start all over in a new mmo ..fresh , new stories, new graphics, new everything.... why keep paying them for a reboot.