Offtanking Garuda X

[JimanR]

Hello,

I killed Garuda X once so far as a Tank, being MT at that time.
I only fail big time when it comes to OT in the last phase. I just seem to can't get it right with the goddamned Spiny. I follow MrHappys startegy, because so far every PuG did it.

Chirada and Spiny comes up.
Spiny doesn't have me as target.
I tomahawk Chirada and provoke Spiny.
I get 2 Stacks, Chirada still lives.
MT provokes Spiny.
Chirada dies. I still have cooldown on provoke for about 5 seconds.
MT has 2 Stacks, Garuda and Suprana.

What the HECK am I supposed to provoke now?
I provoke Spiny, MT still has Suprana and Garuda and, chances are, dying.
Wow OT sucks. Kick.
I provoke Suprana, as I so often saw in videos and guides and what not (which aren't really helpful when it comes to tanking, those guides are always in the ideal situation, FC-mates, vocal communication, etc).
MT gets 3 Stacks, wipe.
Wow OT sucks. Kick.

[JimanR]

If it's really my fault, ok, here I am, seeking help.
But IS it? In my eyes MT provoked Spiny too early, I can't recall how many stacks I had, Chirada was at 50% so I assume I just got the second stack at that moment.
Everytime Chirada dies, I still have cooldown on provoke. So chances are, that as mentioned above, MT has Garuda, Suprana and Spiny and gets 3 stacks, since I can't provoke Spiny (or Suprana??) back to me. Is this even the way it supposed to be? That I have to provoke Spiny at the start of the phase?

Maybe I should just play a DD, playing Tank without a friendly FC makes you pretty much the unwanted inexperienced idiot who is permanently missing the boat.

[JeTaisNoobie]

After your tank buddy gets the 2nd stack, you still have a fair amount of time before the 3rd stacks actually hits. Your provoke WILL HAVE cooled down by then. That is a known fact and has never changed.

If your provoke is still on CD like you said, then it's highly likely your tank buddy provoked it a stack too early.

AND ALSO,

It really doesn't matter who the spiny goes to when the phase begins, just watch whoever has aggro on the spiny (be it tank healer or dps), wait till it has 2 stacks, provoke it over, and you're good to go. It's easier if the spiny falls on the healer or dps.

[subteraneanbird]

You don't need to provoke Spiny immediately if it isn't on you. Let whoever has it first build the 2 stacks. Spiny is slow as hell about attacking so Provoke is almost def up for it. Unless people are actively wresting Spiny or the Sisters off you, you shouldn't be having an issue. Do note that Spiny doesn't always start on a tank, which can be a lifesaver. If Spiny spawns near me as a WHM, I'll often walk up to it so I can be the one building stacks first, and then when OT provokes off me, I hit Shroud just to be sure I don't earn 3. If a DPS gets it first they can just ignore it entirely because they almost def won't be earning aggro after the Provoke.

[JimanR]

Thank you for the answers.

So I understand that I don't need to provoke Spiny at the start of the phase.
Which means, I have to provoke it of the person who has the 2 stacks, around the time when Chirada dies.
But then how do I get Suprana off MT? Do I have to just stand in my corner with spiny and wait for Phase 3 restart? Do I EVEN get Suprana?
It is so confusing to me, because in every guide so far I saw the OT taking Suprana after Chirada dies, but this comes in conflict with the Spiny/provoke cooldown thing in so many times.

[subteraneanbird]

It is a judgment call that you will have to make during the fight. I've had times where our OT never touches Suparna, and MT and healers just have to be smarter about double Wheels. This is especially common during tornado phase where its easier for OT to get to the caster pile than to the MT's spot. Suparna will def not be lasting long either way so just as long as a big mistake isn't being made (like a Spiny being sniped to death by an egi) you're probably doing enough.

[IndigoHawk]

People fight Garuda X using a poor strategy, which makes it hardest for both the MT and OT. MrHappys strategy is fine for that group, but not for the general population.
However, if you try to suggest a more reliable method (like the Triangle strategy, which is almost identical to how Garuda HM works where MT has Garuda, OT has red/Suparna [and provokes spiny at 2 stacks], and DPS kill green/Chirada first), people get mad. They like failing the way that they saw in that video or telling tanks to "get better", even though there's an easier way.

If you keep at it, eventually you'll get lucky using the dumb method.

[subteraneanbird]

^ That's a good point. My group also doesn't use the MrHappy method. In general, whichever sister is on the MT should be the one dying first, because they still have Garuda. I don't understand why people would think differently.

[Pots_Talos]

You don't have to pick up Suprana.
The only time I feel the OT should grab Suprana is if the MT is picking up Spiny after Chirada dies.

[JimanR]

The only time I feel the OT should grab Suprana is if the MT is picking up Spiny after Chirada dies.

Which gets provoke a cooldown, preventing you from getting Spiny back, should MT get 2 stacks, depending on strategy.

I think I will just stick with the method that I won't provoke Spiny at the beginning of P4, only after the specific person gets 2 stacks and let the MT have Suprana and Garuda until restart. If the phase takes longer and MT has Suprana/Garuda/Spiny, so be it. Makes the most sense to me.