Tank asked BLM to "mark and sleep"? Is this normal?

[bokchoykn]

Which obviously means that WARs are the only real tanks. Flash spam ain't gonna cut it on BLM Flare chaining, but SC and Overpower are more than enough. :3

Yes, exactly!

We already know who the real tanks are, though. Paladins stop taking damage by popping Hallowed Ground. Warriors stop taking damage by killing all the things that were dealing damage to them.

[gornotck]

[...]
We already know who the real tanks are, though. Paladins stop taking damage by popping Hallowed Ground. Warriors stop taking damage by killing all the things that were dealing damage to them.

I approve this message.

[IndigoHawk]

Although I've never heard someone use this terminology, I agree that the tank was just asking the BLM to "mark and sleep" whichever targets they wanted to cc, not asking the BLM to lead the party. SV is a dangerous dungeon for trash, so they probably wanted some help with cc. (Also, I recently healed this dungeon again as whm. Without cc, I had to heal the tank constantly. The tank kept running to the next battle before the current one was over, so I always arrived too late to cc a mob. That actually slowed us down, because I had to heal more than dps.)

As a tank, I only mark the target I currently want dps to attack. I used to just shield lob it, but since paladins change targets a lot, it's a bit easier on dps if I mark their target.
Instead of marking a target for cc, it would be easier if the BLM chose a target besides the one I mark, and then marked and slept that one. It would be pretty fast, and as the tank I could easily avoid their target once it's marked.

[Hatsee]

BLM Sleep is an AE past level 36, there is little sense in them marking anything they slept because of this. If it can be slept and is in the pack of mobs it's going to be sleeping.

If he was new you should have probably explained that to him.

[Hatsee]

Outside of gating mobs outside of a boss room, crowd control is for wusses.

REAL tanks tell their BLM to pop Raging Strikes AoE the shit out of everything, to which the BLM obliges. And the WHM joins in.

This is why things like Sleep are useless with a WAR around, I'd question the sanity of any that asked me to Sleep something because I know they will just hit Overpower right after anyway.

[bokchoykn]

This is why things like Sleep are useless with a WAR around, I'd question the sanity of any that asked me to Sleep something because I know they will just hit Overpower right after anyway.

Wrong.

I would Tomahawk it first, just to show you that I actually wanted to wake up the mob. Then I would Overpower it.

[RickmanUK]

In General... I only mark things i Want Dead "Now" i never Worry about CC's Unless we're Locking things out.. And i Much Prefer them Dead then Locked out. (Call me a Cynic.. but IF we Die i Don't Wanna Have too Lock Something out Again.. Much prefer it just Gone so we can go just Go at it... Amdapor Keep Demon Wall used too Irk me so much with Tanks Skipping the Mobs... Now i just think it's silly.)

Other then That SV is the Wake-up call for Tanks and Healers... In general. Before it most things are easy too hold Aggro and Don't tend too hurt that bad.. But those Dragons... Well. I Learned tanking in SV and Don't Care who knows it.

[Raestloz]

As the BLM, and I assume the more experienced between you two, I think you're more in the wrong in this matter.

Asking something unexpected shouldn't draw immediate indignation and refusal. Asking a DPS to mark is rare, but it is certainly something you are able to do.

SV can be rough on a newbie tank and sleep can help a lot. I've recently re-learned the value of repose as a WHM in lowbie dungeons where inexperienced tanks simply cannot hold threat on all the mobs at once when healing needs are high. In a roundabout way, that tank probably had enough on his plate, was feeling stressed, and was hoping to delegate away some responsibility. Not doing so made his job harder. I know when I'm tanking and my party is not cooperating with me, I don't feel terribly motivated to give my full effort either.

It's certainly something I can do, but in a team, you are expected to do your job. He obviously knew the value of marking, why he didn't do just that was beyond me. He never said anything about marking beyond that initial one. Not cooperating is one thing (e.g. overgeared DPS not giving a s**t about enmity level), not doing your job is an entirely different thing, that would mean you're the one not cooperating.

That's partly why I asked. If this is commonplace, I'll start to do it on E party.

BLM Sleep is an AE past level 36, there is little sense in them marking anything they slept because of this. If it can be slept and is in the pack of mobs it's going to be sleeping.

If he was new you should have probably explained that to him.

Even when I was using WHM and Repose (which is single-target), marking bound targets was of little value, mostly because the tank had marked stuff, and/or DPS simply stopped using AoE.

I don't really know how "new" he was. He knew the value of marking, so he's not a total newbie. He had obtained Warrior AF, so he's been around for some time. I mean, how do you get to level 45 and not know what your class is supposed to be doing?

[givemeraptors]

It's certainly something I can do, but in a team, you are expected to do your job.

Everyone has access to marking, it is not a tank-specific ability. Therefore, it is not inherently part of their job. It has come to be seen as something tanks do as de facto "leaders" of a party, but tanks can follow marks just as blindly as DPS can. I have run dungeons where a DPS did all the marking and it went just as smoothly, if not more, since they were following their own marks.

I forgot about BLM aoe sleep at that level, and it's totally possible the tank didn't know that is a BLM trait (I didn't until I actually leveled a BLM). I don't see why you're refusing his request based on artificially enforced guidelines that no one actually needs to follow i.e. tanks and only tanks mark.

[SummonerSenah]

If people level through Fates, it's possible to be level 50 and not know what you're supposed to do or how your abilities work. You would think most tanks would level through dungeons because of instant queues and tank bonuses, but I imagine there are some people playing WAR because they like axes, or PLD because they like swords, and may not enjoy actually tanking. More on topic, I have done SV runs where there was a WAR and a white mage slept mobs. And it was the whm that numbered which mobs she slept. So I do think it makes more sense for the person who is doing the sleeping to mark which ones are slept.