Don't pull it if you can't hold it!

[Blissa]

I am a i94 whm and I love big pulls. But for the love of god don't make big pulls if you cant hold the mobs. There is nothing worse as a whm then trying to heal ping pong damage. Or worse yet I die because I am spamming cure 2 to try and keep everyone alive.

[Marxam]

The counter to this argument is if you can't heal through big pulls then I won't do it. I normally do big pulls, BL hard for example only needs 4 mob pulls to do the entire dungeon (not including boss). But I've been in instances where I do my normal thing and pull big and suddenly I find myself burning through my cool downs too quickly because:

a) the healer can't keep up
b) the dps are too slow
c) a and b

Keeping hate is not that hard. For wars its flash, OP, SC and for pld it flash and RoH, though I find holding hate as pld in large pulls (6+ mobs) to be a little harder since they lack the aoe enmity that wars have.

TS;DR Yea I agree with the op.

[ZDamned]

Blissa, your not telling any tank anything they don't know. Sorry if you played with a bad one, but talking to THAT tank is much more effective than trying to PSA all tanks who likely CAN hold onto a large group.

PS: If you died in Brayflox, please try to tank it yourself, and see how frustrating it can be when Paralyze procs 5 times in a row on you, and your unable to hit a CD, or an Overpower/Flash in time.

[ariaandkia]

Blissa, your not telling any tank anything they don't know. Sorry if you played with a bad one, but talking to THAT tank is much more effective than trying to PSA all tanks who likely CAN hold onto a large group.

PS: If you died in Brayflox, please try to tank it yourself, and see how frustrating it can be when Paralyze procs 5 times in a row on you, and your unable to hit a CD, or an Overpower/Flash in time.

I kind of have to agree with both sides here. On one hand, tanks SHOULD know. On the other hand, from personal experience, most tanks that do dungeons don't know (I don't consider the scenario "dungeons" as dungeons-those tanks tend to be good).

As for bray, it can be frustrating but at the same time, tank should be planning accordingly. Even worse is when I'm curing paralyze right away or when it doesn't even proc and they still can't hold aggro at all. Had one tank just stand there attacking one enemy using his aoes on one single enemy while the party was fighting the rest of the enemies. I dropped the tank to save the party. Tank blamed me for dying and thought that the party was the "worst party ever". Same tank that didn't realize that our BLM was afk at the start of the duty and who thought the BLM was attacking the mobs. (Despite no fire explosions or ice explosions or any explosions). Where our Lancer was the only DPS we had. Both me and DPS noticed but tank was clueless.

First time, tank held aggro at least so we lasted a good minute before my MP finally died from spamming cure 2 to keep the tank alive. Granted, the lancer was kind of watching his aggro from what I saw and wasn't randomly AoE'ing or anything and was even attacking same target as the tank.

Second time, tank completely lost aggro. First to the BLM then even to the Lancer who was probably trying to save me from all the enemies that suddenly rushed me. Tank just stands there aoe'ing ONE target while the rest are everywhere else.

That is just one of the many. For every good run, I'll get 3 decent runs and 10-20 bad runs.

It has gotten so bad that I've learned to tank on my THM/BLM/ARC/SMN/CON/WHM/SCH. Notice anything wrong there with that class lineup and theoretical ability to tank?

[Purrfectstorm]

Blissa, your not telling any tank anything they don't know. Sorry if you played with a bad one, but talking to THAT tank is much more effective than trying to PSA all tanks who likely CAN hold onto a large group.

PS: If you died in Brayflox, please try to tank it yourself, and see how frustrating it can be when Paralyze procs 5 times in a row on you, and your unable to hit a CD, or an Overpower/Flash in time.

Haha, you beat me to the paralyze comment

[MithrasInvictus]

I just gotta say that holding a big pull becomes exponentially more difficult if a DPS launches something powerful right off the bat, especially if both DPS rage into different mobs. You're too busy trying to wrangle that /those mob/s and its/their new-found blood lust, and the effort to pull them back eats into parts of your combo rotation which would otherwise be divvied out across several different mobs to increase your enmity against them. When things turn south, there has usually been a series of unfortunate events which led to such happening.

[Yumi_umi]

It has gotten so bad that I've learned to tank on my THM/BLM/ARC/SMN/CON/WHM/SCH. Notice anything wrong there with that class lineup and theoretical ability to tank?

Idk about the other classes but tanking as a whm is actually pretty easy lol. Like during the first mass pull in brayflox hm, if tank decides to stop at ramp i'll gladly just stand still and heal away/ dps regardless if i'm eating the gob's aoe explosions lol.
They barely hurt and i can still heal everyone for a good 3-5mins even if i'm being attacked by a few enemies that the tank failed to pick up. I just mark them so that they will hopefully see it.
Once your hp passes that 5-6k threshold you'll see how godly stoneskin is in these level 50 dungeons. XD
Quick yoshi! Put a gear cap on!

[RyuDragnier]

This topic thread just reminds me of why I don't go for big pulls while tanking, it requires a large amount of trust in the DPS and healer to do their job well and fast. Outside of people you know, I've noticed way too many people who are unable to do their jobs that well in DF, so I tend to stray away from big pulls.

Also, just because this brings to mind something...when the hell did speed runs through gathering large amounts of mobs become a thing here? I did a run with some Japanese players and they grabbed small mob groups, we burned them down, went forward, and repeated all the way through Haukke Manor HM. It was one of the fastest runs I had been through in the place simply because they didn't overpull, they grabbed the groups that already link to each other (at most had 4 enemies on us), and we go through with the place with 6-7 minutes left on the protect. When did the thought of larger pulls = faster runs become so prevalent?

[Purrfectstorm]

This topic thread just reminds me of why I don't go for big pulls while tanking, it requires a large amount of trust in the DPS and healer to do their job well and fast. Outside of people you know, I've noticed way too many people who are unable to do their jobs that well in DF, so I tend to stray away from big pulls.

Also, just because this brings to mind something...when the hell did speed runs through gathering large amounts of mobs become a thing here? I did a run with some Japanese players and they grabbed small mob groups, we burned them down, went forward, and repeated all the way through Haukke Manor HM. It was one of the fastest runs I had been through in the place simply because they didn't overpull, they grabbed the groups that already link to each other (at most had 4 enemies on us), and we go through with the place with 6-7 minutes left on the protect. When did the thought of larger pulls = faster runs become so prevalent?

I'm with you there! Besides, you have to factor in bad speedruns into your average clear time. If you have a wipe or two, you may as well have done it the normal way.

One thing I hate as a tank is being pushed to speedrun (there's a trust factor, which frankly I don't have for some people). When people tell me to grab more mobs or pull them for me, it annoys me. I know what my own comfort level is. It's like if you're driving a car and doing 65 and someone tells you to do 90 because they're comfortable doing 90. You're best served driving to your ability, not someone else's. Yes, I just compared healers/dps who do this to backseat drivers but hey, if you want to drive, you're welcome to, just play a tank!

[KingOfAbyss]

This topic thread just reminds me of why I don't go for big pulls while tanking, it requires a large amount of trust in the DPS and healer to do their job well and fast. Outside of people you know, I've noticed way too many people who are unable to do their jobs that well in DF, so I tend to stray away from big pulls.

Also, just because this brings to mind something...when the hell did speed runs through gathering large amounts of mobs become a thing here? I did a run with some Japanese players and they grabbed small mob groups, we burned them down, went forward, and repeated all the way through Haukke Manor HM. It was one of the fastest runs I had been through in the place simply because they didn't overpull, they grabbed the groups that already link to each other (at most had 4 enemies on us), and we go through with the place with 6-7 minutes left on the protect. When did the thought of larger pulls = faster runs become so prevalent?

Amen to that, come to Gilgamesh!

People that skip trash mobs.. just to get their last boss down.. (I do feel it's an exploit in itself, but SE made it that way, so if you can counter the mechanics planned, the DEVs just need to readjust them)

I like to do full runs, talking in DF (since when you talk in a MMO?) ok some are playing PS3-4, no keyboards, I understand that. Others can say they don't talk cause of PS4, like the 'Lag' when we fail lol

This game is meant to be enjoyed: for me, rushing to get 300 myth per hour, doing the same DGN over and over - not for me.

I am all ears if people wants to teach me something; but like everything, there is a way to get your message been listened to.

Be nice, and people will return the favor.

And yes, 2 times killing 3-4 mobs, no one dies, fast and easy > 8-mobs (higher chances of dying/something goes wrong)

/clap