Is the New Design that Skill Doesn't Matter?

[razzgrizz3]

I am wondering if we will see boss mob encounters that are ostensibly mindlessly easy fights with the chance that the boss mob might use an insta-kill mechanic that will wipe the group, no matter what they do?

this is already in place in a form of the extremely tight ping check/ servers randomly deciding to fart and screw you over.
example titan hm/ex, twintania divebombs/ an assortment of other similar stuff (albeit not as punishing).

[infinitezero]

What a ridiculous exaggeration. Let me take it in the other direction to give you an example of how foolish you sound.

Why don't they just take out RNG all together? Now every FATE drops an Atma, every boss drops every item from their pool all at once with enough duplicates to go around, every mob drops the same amount of gil and crafting materials to everyone that got a hit in on it. Now everyone can walk around in full 110 gear with a 115 weapon just for running through each bit of content a single time. No reason to play anything twice. No reason to craft. Nothing to spend gil on. Sounds like fun to me!

You're singling out one of 3 methods available to obtain an iLv 100 weapon (which is 15 levels below the best weapons - you know, the ones that actually require skill to obtain) and acting as though every aspect of the game is going to end up based on pure RNG and require no skill because of it. This is equivalent to saying life isn't fair because lottery draws are random and you don't want to try any other method of getting money, and those who have money only have it because they either got really lucky or bought a ridiculous amount of lottery tickets.

Does that clear things up for you?

[Raenryong]

The above post is a textbook strawman.

[infinitezero]

The above post is a textbook strawman.

Of course it is. It's the same thing that the OP did by suggesting that his argument against RNG for Atma grinding means that we're going to see other things that are superficially similar to it in the form of world mobs that sometimes insta-kill you no matter how skilled/geared you are, and dungeons that are sometimes unbeatable because of randomly generated dead ends. That is a clear misrepresentation of the design teams intent in a hypothetical future situation. I started out by saying my post would be a similar example, so I'm really not sure what you had hoped to achieve by pointing that out.

[Leira_Raine]

I feel like there are two different paths to take, which kinda makes me happy thinking about it.

Path one requires skill = Coil, Ex Primals, Etc.

Path two requires RNG = Atma Farming, Myth Grinding/Pure Soldiery Grinding (though that also somewhat interweaves with skill later).

I mean, the iLvls seem to be the same, and the stats aren't vastly different from each other.

It just depends on preference, I think.

I think in that sense, the RNG rates are fine, especially since Coil can be a challenge.

[Felis]

With the atma quest, SE has introduced a design philosophy - Player skill doesn't matter RNG will determine success.

Will that design philosophy be used going forward?

Do you mean clearing Coil 6-9 is for lucky people instead for skilled people?
Even though some contents are luck based, it don't mean that you don't need skill in other contents.

[Ryans]

With the atma quest, SE has introduced a design philosophy - Player skill doesn't matter RNG will determine success.

Will that design philosophy be used going forward?

I am curious, because it is a fairly significant change in progression design. This type of design uses content that requires little to no skill, but has an overriding external random factor that completely determines success or failure of an objective.

I am wondering if we will see boss mob encounters that are ostensibly mindlessly easy fights with the chance that the boss mob might use an insta-kill mechanic that will wipe the group, no matter what they do?

Since the new design method focuses on random factors of success, rather than player skill- I am also curious if we should anticipate other changes, such as insta-kill abilities on otherwise unchallenging overworld mobs... dynamic maps in overly simple dungeons that might populate with dead ends, making the dungeon impossible to complete or other rng based methods that can make otherwise elementary tasks impossible?

Will this be used in crafting? Will there be a random chance for critical failure added to crafting that destroys the crafted item and components?

I was just curious if this new design philosophy is one that is intentional and will be used elsewhere or if it is an aberration?

The fact that there is one set of items (that aren't the best... or even second best... hell, not even third best in some cases) that relies on a mindless grind then the entire game is now being designed that way? I think you need a breather from atma farming.

[Luciano_Bozzelli]

LOL Nice, but don't waste your time on these guys in these threads man they'll never listen. The things they are saying make it sounds like a man from FFXI that ran dynamis over and over and over, farmed currency over, and over, and over, to get a Relic weapon that not many people on the server had, is a casual player... Because he didn't beat some mega boss to get it. LMAO

It's not about the Rng to get the weapon, its about the dedication you have to put towards something even when it didn't drop immediately, by working hard to get it. Just because I didn't down a Level 100 boss to get my Animus, doesn't mean that I didn't work hard finishing every one of those 9 books, had the skill to burn through Brayflox in 6 minutes, and had the perseverance, determination, and patience to sit at that fate to finish this book, and that book. Yeah its not beating turn 9, but is it my fought that my raid group hasn't down turn 5 but I have? Is it my fault that I have only found one group that needed a BLM replacement, and went to turn 6 with them since I won't abandon my raid group?

Some of you guys should stop, take a look at all this stuff you have typed up over the last few weeks, read it real carefully, and look at yourself in the mirror. This game is more than about just you, and your feelings. You want something you go get it, but don't try to belittle something that you don't feel like getting. Calling a person a casual just cause they focused and wanted their Animus is stupid. I guess a man spending Soldiery on a weathered weapon, then 5 weeks of Soldiery to upgrade it before he even spends Soldiery on armor is stupid too? I guess fighting Leviathan ex 40 times and not seeing your sword drop, or 100 times and not getting your Mirror is stupid too.

How about the hard core man that's apart of BG, and he's downed turn 9 5 times now, but hasn't seen his weapon drop, is he stupid too? Or sorry because he hasn't got a weapon yet. All this stuff takes time, each path takes time, and a bit of luck... When will you guys understand that MMO's have always been about determination, perseverance, and patience sprinkled with some luck. Whether you are fighting Primals, (need luck for primal to drop what you need) fighting coil, (need luck for coil to drop what you need) Your still dealing with RNG rather you believe your bad ass or not.

A man could have down turn 6, 7, and 8 3 times already, but has nothing to show for it because he was unlucky on drops. When you examine that man, and he has an Animus, is he a casual? Or maybe he just wanted his Animus so he could be stronger while aiming for higher tier weapons that might be available, playing it smart, knowing that his Animus will always be upgradable.

[ApolloGenX]

I've seen a lot of responses that seem to misconstrue my OP as "will this design replace all the current designs"? That is not the case.

As someone pointed out (rightly so, imo) there are multiple paths to upgrade. This particular design is different from the other ones and I am wondering if this is going to be maintained as a new "core" design for progression?

One person asked if I think it takes less skill than token farming? In fact, I would say yes- simply based on the assumption of the skill curve as it relates to leveling and the content requirement being lower level than max level- this combined with the ability to complete without much if any coordination.

One could say that FATES take fewer coordination/planning skills generally than single group focused content, which might require fewer of those skills than raid content.

Yes, I realize coil is in the game and theoretically uses skill as a progression based measure- this new design is different. I am not asking if that coil design will go away- just if this is planned to be a new viable design for an alternate progression method going forward?

Please, try to consider my post in the context of design, not content. I am not specifically focused on the atma quest content- there was a design decision made behind this, and I am curious as to the future of that concept and how they see it fitting in the overall model of progression going forward.

Here's another example that might not seem so extreme : Putting essential crafting components or some quest component as a reward in a casino game. That is something that some people might find very fun and would fall into this design. It's not as hard to swallow as my prior examples.

[Gaddes]

With the atma quest, SE has introduced a design philosophy - Player skill doesn't matter RNG will determine success.

Will that design philosophy be used going forward?

Atmas definitely seem to indicate SE's interest in having both casual and hardcore paths for FFXIV. If you want hardcore, there is coil. If you are more casual, Atmas and the like are the option for you to do at your leisure. The only reason why they like using RNG as determining success is because they want to artificially extend the life of that casual gameplay... otherwise the more hardcore would exhaust it within a month tops. I'm not saying that that's a good way to go about it, but that's the one they're choosing :\