Is the New Design that Skill Doesn't Matter?

[DarkStar]

Keep this on the down low, but I once heard from a guy who knows a guy who's friends with someone that works in SE that the original name for the 2.2 Patch was "Through the RNG". But this is just between you and me, got it? */conspiratorial wink*

[Luciano_Bozzelli]

LOL Nice, but don't waste your time on these guys in these threads man they'll never listen. The things they are saying make it sounds like a man from FFXI that ran dynamis over and over and over, farmed currency over, and over, and over, to get a Relic weapon that not many people on the server had, is a casual player... Because he didn't beat some mega boss to get it. LMAO

It's not about the Rng to get the weapon, its about the dedication you have to put towards something even when it didn't drop immediately, by working hard to get it. Just because I didn't down a Level 100 boss to get my Animus, doesn't mean that I didn't work hard finishing every one of those 9 books, had the skill to burn through Brayflox in 6 minutes, and had the perseverance, determination, and patience to sit at that fate to finish this book, and that book. Yeah its not beating turn 9, but is it my fought that my raid group hasn't down turn 5 but I have? Is it my fault that I have only found one group that needed a BLM replacement, and went to turn 6 with them since I won't abandon my raid group?

Some of you guys should stop, take a look at all this stuff you have typed up over the last few weeks, read it real carefully, and look at yourself in the mirror. This game is more than about just you, and your feelings. You want something you go get it, but don't try to belittle something that you don't feel like getting. Calling a person a casual just cause they focused and wanted their Animus is stupid. I guess a man spending Soldiery on a weathered weapon, then 5 weeks of Soldiery to upgrade it before he even spends Soldiery on armor is stupid too? I guess fighting Leviathan ex 40 times and not seeing your sword drop, or 100 times and not getting your Mirror is stupid too.

How about the hard core man that's apart of BG, and he's downed turn 9 5 times now, but hasn't seen his weapon drop, is he stupid too? Or sorry because he hasn't got a weapon yet. All this stuff takes time, each path takes time, and a bit of luck... When will you guys understand that MMO's have always been about determination, perseverance, and patience sprinkled with some luck. Whether you are fighting Primals, (need luck for primal to drop what you need) fighting coil, (need luck for coil to drop what you need) Your still dealing with RNG rather you believe your bad ass or not.

A man could have down turn 6, 7, and 8 3 times already, but has nothing to show for it because he was unlucky on drops. When you examine that man, and he has an Animus, is he a casual? Or maybe he just wanted his Animus so he could be stronger while aiming for higher tier weapons that might be available, playing it smart, knowing that his Animus will always be upgradable.

[ApolloGenX]

I've seen a lot of responses that seem to misconstrue my OP as "will this design replace all the current designs"? That is not the case.

As someone pointed out (rightly so, imo) there are multiple paths to upgrade. This particular design is different from the other ones and I am wondering if this is going to be maintained as a new "core" design for progression?

One person asked if I think it takes less skill than token farming? In fact, I would say yes- simply based on the assumption of the skill curve as it relates to leveling and the content requirement being lower level than max level- this combined with the ability to complete without much if any coordination.

One could say that FATES take fewer coordination/planning skills generally than single group focused content, which might require fewer of those skills than raid content.

Yes, I realize coil is in the game and theoretically uses skill as a progression based measure- this new design is different. I am not asking if that coil design will go away- just if this is planned to be a new viable design for an alternate progression method going forward?

Please, try to consider my post in the context of design, not content. I am not specifically focused on the atma quest content- there was a design decision made behind this, and I am curious as to the future of that concept and how they see it fitting in the overall model of progression going forward.

Here's another example that might not seem so extreme : Putting essential crafting components or some quest component as a reward in a casino game. That is something that some people might find very fun and would fall into this design. It's not as hard to swallow as my prior examples.

[Ikeda]

Not likely. SE has made it pretty clear that relics won't be the best.

Then they've broken their lore and it makes no sense. They turned summoner into a affliction warlock reskin for the sake of lore because summoning the real primals harms the planet, and they won't give dragoon a wyvern pet because the lore says dragoons hate dragons like some sort of crusader zealot. But now they have it where we're going through all this trouble to recreate what's supposed to be the weapons the strongest fighters in the world used to save the world but oh some weapons made by some civilization that was recently destroyed by Garleans just magically happens to be stronger than those. If the final forms of the Zodiac Weapons aren't the strongest weapons then they've broken their own lore when they refuse to in other circumstances.

[ispano]

-snip-

Except they haven't. Allagan Tech basically predates Relics by several eras.

The Allagan Empire was around in the Third Astral Era, Curtana for example was created in the Sixth Astral Era and Stardust as another example, the Fifth.

[Ikeda]

Except they haven't. Allagan Tech basically predates Relics by several eras.

The Allagan Empire was around in the Third Astral Era, Curtana for example was created in the Sixth Astral Era and Stardust as another example, the Fifth.

Except that's Curtana you're talking about not the Zodiac Weapons. The original relic quest was just restoring Curtana to its original power. Now the Zodiac Weapon quest is you taking Curtana and feeding it souls and whatever other methods are used in the future quests to transform it into a recreation of a different likely more ancient weapon. More than likely it's trying to transform Curtana and Holy Shield into a recreation of Excalibur and Aegis.

[ispano]

Except that's Curtana you're talking about not the Zodiac Weapons. The original relic quest was just restoring Curtana to its original power. Now the Zodiac Weapon quest is you taking Curtana and feeding it souls and whatever other methods are used in the future quests to transform it into a recreation of a different likely more ancient weapon. More than likely it's trying to transform Curtana and Holy Shield into a recreation of Excalibur and Aegis.

And the Allagan Empire is the most advanced civilization that has existed in the timeline. You can go back and forth with this as much as you want, it's not likely Relics will ever be the strongest. Because if they did that it would need to be locked away behind the strongest content and I don't want to see the forums if that happens.

[Gaddes]

With the atma quest, SE has introduced a design philosophy - Player skill doesn't matter RNG will determine success.

Will that design philosophy be used going forward?

Atmas definitely seem to indicate SE's interest in having both casual and hardcore paths for FFXIV. If you want hardcore, there is coil. If you are more casual, Atmas and the like are the option for you to do at your leisure. The only reason why they like using RNG as determining success is because they want to artificially extend the life of that casual gameplay... otherwise the more hardcore would exhaust it within a month tops. I'm not saying that that's a good way to go about it, but that's the one they're choosing :\

[Zumi]

Turn 6 and 7 take a lot of skill and teamwork. One person messes up you wipe.

[Velox]

Turn 6 and 7 take a lot of skill and teamwork. One person messes up you wipe.

Which also justifies the zodiac quest as a necessary option. Some players have enough skill to do Coil, hell some of these players are the most skilled in the game, but if you can't find a group of 7 people who are equally skilled, Coil will forever be out of reach. Many skilled players simply don't have that luck due to RL circumstances that hinder them joining a "static."