The "To DPS" vs "Not DPS" Debate

[Viviza]

I think the decision should really be on the HEALER, not the party. If the healer feels that they are better off not DPSing, then the healer should NOT DPS. If the healer feels that they are better off DPSing, then the healer SHOULD DPS.

It isn't "an intentional decision to not give a full effort." That is assuming things.

As I mentioned before, there are plenty of reasons why a healer might not want to DPS. Now, I will usually try to do what the party asks, but... If I'm spamming cure II just trying to keep the tank alive because he is taking so much damage that doing anything else will kill him (and he is literally hanging on by a thread), and you tell me to start DPSing? I will tell you to pay attention to the situation.

A healer must exercise personal judgement, yes. And there are plenty of reasons not to DPS at a given moment - the need to regenerate mp, threat, anticipation of incoming damage, and so on.

But at no point did I say that healers should start DPSing at inappropriate times...

The original assertion by the original poster was to discredit the notion that "You are a bad healer if all you do is heal". So my point is, if ALL you do is heal, then there will be times when you could opt to DPS, with no downside, and you are choosing not to. If you're not playing your class to the best of your ability, you are reducing the utility of the group. Tanks and dps also have abilities they could simply ignore while still doing their core function. Is a healer special in this regard, that they are above critique? I would argue that no such lofty position exists. It is a team effort and everyone has a role to play.

[Lilysparkle]

A healer must exercise personal judgement, yes. And there are plenty of reasons not to DPS at a given moment - the need to regenerate mp, threat, anticipation of incoming damage, and so on.

But at no point did I say that healers should start DPSing at inappropriate times...

The original assertion by the original poster was to discredit the notion that "You are a bad healer if all you do is heal". So my point is, if ALL you do is heal, then there will be times when you could opt to DPS, with no downside, and you are choosing not to. If you're not playing your class to the best of your ability, you are reducing the utility of the group. Tanks and dps also have abilities they could simply ignore while still doing their core function. Is a healer special in this regard, that they are above critique? I would argue that no such lofty position exists. It is a team effort and everyone has a role to play.

I agree. This is actually applicable. I've seen BLM who never use Lethargy or Apocatastasis. I've seen DRG who don't Leg Sweep or don't use Feint. BRDs who rarely use Blunt Arrow, or SMN not using Eye for an Eye. No they don't have to, but these are abilities that are present in their skillset (not even cross-classed), and I find it a shame when they're not being used, as it rounds out their role and gives some utility to classes that usually just beat up the enemy. ;x You could easily remake this thread on the DPS forum and title it "To Support" vs "Not Support" debate. It's the same principle, but sure slightly less prominent for the reason Ghishlain stated; healers are the only class that can effectively dip their toes into both roles (reliably), at max level at least.

[TheWaywardWind]

I agree, but only to a certain extent. Due to the fact that you can really only do so much damage in specific instances, I choose to only utilize holy when the tank has a massive trash pull we plan on getting rid of ASAP.

There are other instances were I've actually seen well-geared WHM's and SCH's DPS instead of heal, and leave the healing solely to me.

I just acheived level 50, so my gear is far from fantastic, so it boggles my mind when people freely choose to leave the healing to me at the risk of throwing in an extra Aero II or Stone II here and there.

It can be difficult playing as a healer, and sometimes I feel I suffer too much heat for the faults of other players, especially DPS, who cannot move themselves fast enough to avoid an AOE insta-kill.

In situations like these, and various others, 'Let me see if I can snag in an extra Stone II!' is the FURTHEST thing from my mind.

[Ghishlain]

I think this contradicts itself. A healer who only heals is not adaptable.

The point at which a player is "bad" is subjective, but refusing to DPS is simply ignoring a a substantial part of the class toolkit. It would be like a paladin who refuses to use sword oath. The argument might go - a paladin is a tank so you can't call a paladin bad for refusing to maximize their DPS while not tanking a mob.

Either way, it's an intentional decision to not give a full effort, which affects other players, and given it's a team game other people do have the right to express their concerns when the group is not doing its best.

I don't believe a player is "bad" if they are completing the role clearly defined to them. However, I do believe that this player is only "okay" as they aren't making full use of their toolbox. The "good" players are those that make full use of their toolbox while completing the desired task - going up and beyond their role to give added value to their party. Your rating in a party can fall somewhere between these three points (bad being the lowest, okay in the middle, and good at the highest).

The point you quoted is worded a bit poorly, it should read something more akin to really good healers are the adaptable ones, but not going up and beyond your role doesn't make you bad either.

Just to remark in the grey areas, some people are incapable of micro'ing Cleric's Stance, but still do an exceptional job healing. These types of players may be better suited to massive speed run style pulls where they have to heal almost non-stop. Alternatively, the situation may not allow for the healer to DPS at all, such as one time I was doing AK back in 2.0 and the DRG and WAR I was with refused to move out of red lines. Needless to say, I couldn't DPS very often due to the circumstances of the situation (and not for lack of trying either).

I will concede though, if its blatantly obvious you aren't trying, I'm going to label you as bad. If it's clear you're new, I will give pointers and try to advise as needed to help your healing become better (generally happens in low level DR with sub-30 dungeons).

I will also concede that it is frustrating when someone doesn't adapt to a situation, and if they did, you would've just barely cleared that milestone .-.

[Conant]

I think this contradicts itself. A healer who only heals is not adaptable.

The point at which a player is "bad" is subjective, but refusing to DPS is simply ignoring a a substantial part of the class toolkit. It would be like a paladin who refuses to use sword oath. The argument might go - a paladin is a tank so you can't call a paladin bad for refusing to maximize their DPS while not tanking a mob.

Either way, it's an intentional decision to not give a full effort, which affects other players, and given it's a team game other people do have the right to express their concerns when the group is not doing its best.

I feel this more like telling the tank to switch between Shield Oath and Sword Oath. I do not hear people screaming at the tank to switch to increase DPS even if they can hold hate on trash mobs or most bosses.

[givemeraptors]

That's fine if you don't mind slower completion times for yourself and your groups, but I don't see why you wouldn't want to contribute as much as possible. A DPSing healer in a faceroll dungeon speeds up the process considerably.

I actually DPS quite often, whether from being in a hurry, bored, or what have you. But sometimes I just want to play and eat dinner or something. The last thing I want to hear during those moments are party members chastising me for not DPSing.

Then you aren't doing your jobs full potential hunny ^^
SE gave you spells to deal damage, and as a scholar you have
a much easier task as healing and dpsing. If you are just standing there
you definitely won't get my commendation :P

We have damage spells and Cleric Stance for solo content, not to help out in dungeons.
SE already nerfed Holy because they felt WHMs were being pressured to DPS when it wasn't their job. I believe the quote was something like:
"Holy was nerfed because speedrunners placed a lot of pressure on White Mages to DPS. Healers are healers, not DPSers."
Now when things go wrong I expect people to adapt. DRGs tank, BRDs kite, SMNs toss Physicks... but in a typical run? Nah.

As for commendations I don't mind. I already have 500+ ^_^

I feel this more like telling the tank to switch between Shield Oath and Sword Oath. I do not hear people screaming at the tank to switch to increase DPS even if they can hold hate on trash mobs or most bosses.

Your first post and I love it.

[bdp12]

When you out gear a dungeon, I just don't understand why you would even want to just stand around and do nothing, especially in a low level roulette. The healing requirements are practically nil if the tank has a high iLvl, but a little more attention would need to be paid for a tank in weaker gear. Nothing instajibs a tank in any of these low level dungeons, so there is really no reason not to be dpsing in cleric. Jeez if you are really lazy, you can just toss a couple of cures while in cleric stance then go back to dpsing.

[Staris]

"We have damage spells and Cleric Stance for solo content, not to help out in dungeons."
Then it wouldn't work in groups.

Being lazy and bad and eating while wasting other peoples time is your decision.
Just admit it and move on.

[bdp12]

Being lazy and bad and eating while wasting other peoples time is your decision.

I lol'ed. How many pulls does it take to finish a piece of pizza anyway?

[Lovemonster]

I don't know where you get the idea that people pressure healers to DPS because I've never seen this happen in dungeons, trials or raids (duty finder and party finder). You're only expected to heal and in some special cases like plumes in garuda ex, to DPS because it makes the fight so much easier for the party. The only "pressure" I think is that you are being categorized as either bad or lazy.

Some healers like to contribute more to encounters than just healing. Not doing so is just being lazy and you really can't deny it. Trying to justify not doing damage with how classes are designed or what their primary role is supposed to be just paints the picture that you're just too lazy to contribute more.
The same applies to warriors who take off defiance while off-tanking during tank swaps. This not only helps reduce your enmity generated but also you inflict more damage. They're not expected to do it, but good tanks usually do.