DPS ignoring hate/threat/aggro

[Valendore]

Either they changed TERA a lot since I stopped playing, or you've never tanked in TERA end game. Yes, challenging shout is amazing and gives you a nice boost in aggro - however, if any melee DPS gets a triple crit? Especially on a boss you don't have much time in between blocks? You're done. That DPS is pulling it off you no problem. Even if you use your Infuriate, you're still going to get rammed again when those crit chains start exploding while you're blocking again.

TERA tanking is actually way more complicated than in this - if someone can tank in TERA, they can tank in FF14. OP/Flash = Challenging Shout. The only difference is you don't just have to press it once and then again every time it's off cooldown. Tanking is honestly the easiest of all 3 roles, if you have to change tanking to make it even easier then you'll have to just remove AOEs completely and make every job have a 123 rotation. Because that's fun, right?

Yes, I have a 60 lancer in TERA, but I stopped playing June 2013 due to my hands having pain issues. I finally got a static to start working end game, but I only got as far as silver (rank 2?) in Sirjuka’s Gallery. It took forever to get a static formed, and then I had to quit not long after it was formed. I felt so bad. As for threat, ya I am sure I was over stating shout. I know I had to build my threat combos or dps pulled off of me. I maintanked the nexus dungeon too, and when the damn dragon would flop around, I would lose aggro on it too because I couldn't get to it. Blocking was all about knowing the BAMs/Boss moves and only using block as necessary. I am sure I could have tanked Argon Corpus and MC (?) when the time came.

[Elrin]

The point of the enmity system is not to determine who NPCs are attacking. Because there are other systems that accomplish what the enmity system does in a simpler fashion, the *point* of the enmity system is to create a subgame to determine who NPCs are attacking.

Yes, the point is to determine who enemies are attacking. The usage of that system is what you're referring to. The system can be used in the foreground, by tanks to actively manage and control it, or in the background, as an invisible system used only by the game itself. FFXIV chose to have it be used in the foreground while WoW chose to have it be used in the background.

The subgame you refer to is a usage of an existing system to make tanking more interesting in the absence of other interesting mechanics. It's something that WoW used for a long time too, then abandoned in favor of a different system.

WAR uses a mixture of the systems. Enmity is still important, but they have a shell of an active mitigation system in place as well, plus other things to keep track of. I think it works fine; as you noted, I'm only just starting with MAR, but it's already pretty fun, and my research leads me to believe it will only continue to be so.

I personally haven't really had issues with enmity in this game, as either a tank or a DPS. I had a pretty big stigma against it when I first started playing, but it's not nearly as bad as threat used to be in WoW. So I don't really think there's a need to remove it. I can, however, understand why people would have that point of view.

[Dimitrias]

Just the other day I was mt guruda hm. Well I got initial hate, but as soon as she jumped in the air, and came back down, she immediately whent start for our bard. I even used my provoke + Shield lob macro to try and get her back, but she went right back to the dps.

Our war took over mt immediately and I just attacked after that point

I've mt her before and she always came back to me and I'd keep her by that big rock, but sometimes well...

Even as dpsing guruda ex, several attemps the MT couldn't even get guruda set up before she starting going after the others... he finally told um to stop that.

PS. I was an Ilvl 82 pld MTing Guruda HM, and I still lost her agro that early on...

[Nicodareus]

I'm sorry but in regards to enmity itself the system is fine. Using the current WoW system as a good example is a joke. Go back to vanilla or BC and tank with DPS warriors as well and tell me its a bad system. We had to generate threat and manage cool downs and stance dance and more... its a skill set. Not everyone can do it. Doesn't mean dumb it down like current WoW and make people quit because a chimp can do it.

ARR is not even close to as hard as tanking back in the day. If anything enmity generation needs reduced because its too high.

As to the OP its the current generation of players who got carried by the WoW system and the like who don't understand enmity/threat management is part of a DPS job as well. Vanilla Fury Warrior who never had salvation. If I didn't manage my threat I was dead... nothing a tank could do if I didn't pay attention as DPS.

[EvilHippie]

I main war and yesterday I had a new thm that liked to pull early during a low level dungeon. I flat out told him you pull it you tank it. The pt laughed at him as he pulled and died then we all went on to finish the dungeon without issue. He had learned his lesson.

[PenutButter]

I'm sorry but if you're losing threat to a dps, ESPECIALLY if its a target that you're both focusing on, the fault is entirely with you. It was not hard to keep threat before the buff but with the huge buff that SE gave to threat, this is inexcusable. This might only be excusable if you are SIGNIFICANTLY lower geared than him. Even against the high initial burst of Bards, you should not lose hate, unless the Bard starts attacking it before you even get there but even then, you have plenty of tools to get immediate aggro.

The question is: Should the DPS realize that you're a bad tank and back off? Maybe. I'm not trying to be an elitist and I won't kick or belittle you for being a bad tank but this is just fact. I know some of the newer PLD (WAR is inexcusable) have issues keeping AoE threat against BLMs but it is still more than doable. Also, a BLM taking hate for a few sec is okay, its not the end of the world.

[Rextab]

i've geared up quite a bit since i posted this. i was a fresh 50. now my ilvl is 76. i have my zenith weapon and working towards zodiac, have a few pieces of myth gear, etc. tanking has become exceptionally easier. as i said before, i think it was gear and people not really watching their threat generation over a freshly geared tank. occassionally i do have people that recognize this and even say they will hold off dps a bit until they know if my gear can handle their threat generation. it isn't much of a problem now.
single target (focused mobs) are never an issue. it is extra mobs. they go aoe crazy before you can lay down anything to get solid threat on all targets.

[Rextab]

i have adjusted my playstyle a bit to compensate. what i used to do was use something, usually shield lob to get initial threat, then flash x2, then start working on strikes to get threat built on each target. cycling in a flash here and there to maintain.
my new adjusted pull style which almost always works now is to still pull with shield lob, and then i immediately Flash the number of mobs +1. so if there are three in the pull, i flash 4 times. this seems to get me enough threat out of the gate to keep aggro during the initial AOE-fest, i follow with CoS, and then I start working on rotation. i will then usually Flash x2 after every rotation or so to make sure to keep threat. this really only needs to be done when the group goes AOE crazy.
another thing i did was picked up Fracture from the Marauder skills. While not always useful, i sometimes will throw it up on nonfocused mobs to give me just an extra little bit of threat generation on the mobs i am not currently focusing on.

[Muzy]

DPS pulling because they don't give you a moment to establish agro on an add is always going to be an issue, but that's less of a you issue and more of a them issue, otherwise, sounds like you're well on the path to rocking out with minimal problems.

[Maero]

Sorry that you have had bad experiences, not all dps are like so.
Myself i always use quelling strikes and watch the agro meter, even use quelling with my blm.
I would even say have seen numerous dps attack targets like example target 2 instead of 1, or even target 3.
Sure myself as Bard i often add dots to other targets but then i switch and focus on target #1
On the other hand and Ct has been an example of this, players were complaining that it was dps fault.
So i replied back well if i give tanks time to get agro, pop in Quelling Strikes and still i end up with agro well that is not the dps fault

The question is: Should the DPS realize that you're a bad tank and back off? Maybe. I'm not trying to be an elitist and I won't kick or belittle you for being a bad tank but this is just fact. I know some of the newer PLD (WAR is inexcusable) have issues keeping AoE threat against BLMs but it is still more than doable. Also, a BLM taking hate for a few sec is okay, its not the end of the world.

this holds true as well, more often then not even after using quelling strikes and on the verge of getting agro i wonder should i stop to dps for a bit