DPS ignoring hate/threat/aggro

[Rextab]

I was thinking of posting this in the DPS forum, but I thought I might get more civilized answers here.
I stopped playing a few months ago. I got up to basically end game and ceased playing. I have now come back with the PS4 version and am mostly enjoying the game again.
I have noticed, DPS especially, are horrible in the fact they seem to want to abuse the tanks. They ignore threat.
I have come across, at very least one dundeon a day, where they will just pull with AOEs, or attack mobs before me, don't focus fire at all, and then blame the tank (me) that I cannot control the mobs?
I have a pretty good rotation. I use Flash. I use my AoE, I pull with lob and flash immediately to get aggro. etc. but this game is designed to have a fine line in hate generation. you have to let the tank get it first. then they complain?

[Rextab]

...

had one even hit the boss with a strong attack, i provoked, then he started blowing cooldowns before i could even hit it with anything else...and i was being fast. it was nuts.
I don't stay on my main target. i rotate my strikes to the others, while flashing.
these people outgear me. if they go total crazy right off the bat of couse they will pull threat from me.
has anyone else experience this? are DPS just that obsurd? for every one run I have that is perfectly smooth I have two where I have at least one insane person in it...that curses me to no end.

sorry for the rant, but it is just a bit discouraging to see this happening so often. this sort of behavior just makes me want to stop playing again.

[Lucke]

Tanks have an awful lot of power in dungeons. I've been having the same issue. I may end up starting a dungeon with "You claim it, you tank it". If they claim stuff, kindly tell them to stop. If they blow me off, I refuse to take the mobs off them. Remember: (no one wants to hear this, but it's true) DPS are expendable, Tanks and healers aren't. You will have no issues finding a replacement DPS if they continue to harass you like that.

[Rextab]

i am just coming back to the game...so some of it is learning bosses.
for example the first boss in AK. i have been there 5 times...and 5 times i have been told different strats. most involved the pillar on the right, but not all.
and i was in one group that kept failing because the dps kept telling everyone to stay out in the open.
in the successful ones i would pull the flayer behind the pillar on the right wall. the golum's aoe cant reach us there and it funnels the smaller adds directly across me...letting me grab them easily. but the guy just kept calling me an idiot. i have come across this alot. it didn't seem these people existed before i quit...or at least far more rare.
at least it sounds like im not the only one experiencing this.

[i2agnarok]

As a DPS main that also plays a Tank, I know where you're coming from. Really, you have to realize that people are extremely inflexible, and your experience is always going to seem worse as a tank because you have two DPS to a party and they are the most numerous role in the game. Problematic DPS are going to range from:

1) People that just start laying into everything without a care in the world. Often, they will pull mobs. Everyone hates them (Archers are extremely guilty of this). They pull, won't let up, and it will always be your fault. Personally, I will let one slide (stuff happens), warn the next time, and just let them die if it reaches a third.

2) If they're outgearing you, sometimes they overestimate how much. I this every now and then. If we're attacking the same mob, I'm so used to not jumping up so high on the aggro table that I will overestimate how much I outgear someone and jump to the aggro table. When this happens I will either use an aggro-dumping move or start wailing on a different mob while you take that one off of me. If its the only mob, you'll probably see me sheath my weapon unless I have Life Surge or something and need to spend it. It won't happen often, and I will usually apologize. Not everyone else will do the same.

3) MMO players are always of the mindset that they have to do the absolute most amount of damage 100% of the time, no matter what happens and every tank, no matter what the situation, must be able to handle this 100% of the time, or they suck. You shouldn't be losing aggro in most content, true, but its going to happen for situations like (1) above and other situations. I find face-roll tanking to be less loosely punished in this game compared to others, and people don't respect that.

In short, as the tank, you are going to notice what EVERYONE is doing, and you're going to be on the spot a lot more than anyone else. You are going to be the most under-appreciated person in the party at all times if anything deviates even slightly from their game plan. The joy of dealing with other people.

[Ricdeau]

I think the biggest problem here is the mentality of people going into dungeons. Everyone wants to be in and out quickly so the mass pulls and AOE method has become the norm. Also pulling mobs to the boss room entrance and waiting for the barrier to block off the mobs. I can't say the problem falls on solely the DPS, but the general playerbase that perpetuated this method of playing along with the desire to do things in the least amount of time/effort possible. I certainly understand your frustration in it though the attitude a lot of players present when you don't want to play exactly the way they want is tiresome.

[Tayne]

If dps outgear you by a lot, keeping hate can get hard. A few things that might help

-Mark targets. Or at least mark the initial target. If people want to ignore that mark, they can just tank whatever themselves.
-Noone else pulls. Initial agro helps you get all the critters in range for flash or overpower without them running all over.
-Tell people that if they get hate, they should run TO the tank. Trying to save the dps in the back running around in circles will just make you lose hate from the rest of things.
-Shield Lob at the start is your friend to get some quick hate.
-Some DPS are actually quite capable with dealing trash mobs themselves. Sometimes it's just faster and safer to let them tank it, especially if they are geared.

[Rextab]

yeah. some of the threat problem has been gear. they are probably average gear 80+ at least. my average right now just hit 54 last night.
i even had one group compliment me last night in how well i was holding aggro since everyone in the group was WAY more geared than me...but they were also playing smart. it just seems some just want to make the tank's life miserable.
i enoy the game, and in most games i quite enjoy tanking...it's my preferred role. but some of these guys are really souring me on it right now.
i finally seem to have found a good FC yesterday. i am hoping i can just run with some regulars that will make it more fun. this won't help in roulettes though.

[ZDamned]

Rex, I can't sympathize with you, but I can offer you a quick bit of advice. =)

First off, if you notice people are AOE crazy, Just ignore your attack combos, and Flash till your out of MP. Then Riot Blade till the fight is over. Flash generates Gear indiscriminant enmity, and AOE DPS is far lower than focused DPS, so you should be able to hold threat fully until you get the gear level gap closed.

Finally, start each instance off with a friendly reminder than you were absent for a while, and your gear level is not as it should be compared to players who have been playing since Launch. So for obsses, they should allow you to get at least Rage of Halone off before they start. (Make message a macro you can easily hit right away!)

Those both together should make your like MUCH easier in the DF runs.

Good luck!

[Ricdeau]

If dps outgear you by a lot, keeping hate can get hard. A few things that might help

-Mark targets. Or at least mark the initial target. If people want to ignore that mark, they can just tank whatever themselves.
-Noone else pulls. Initial agro helps you get all the critters in range for flash or overpower without them running all over.
-Tell people that if they get hate, they should run TO the tank. Trying to save the dps in the back running around in circles will just make you lose hate from the rest of things.
-Shield Lob at the start is your friend to get some quick hate.
-Some DPS are actually quite capable with dealing trash mobs themselves. Sometimes it's just faster and safer to let them tank it, especially if they are geared.

Yeah, I run into this a lot. I get into dungeons with far more gear than the tank, and it's inevitable that I'm going to get threat on something even with marked targets. So I just end up tanking something, and tell the tank to not worry about it. I've gotten into dungeons with fresh tanks and I was i90 (90+ now). They have no chance in that scenario so I can't get mad about that, but I think I might be one of the few that doesn't get all up in arms because the dungeon wasn't completed in 15 minutes or less.