Implementing both F2P/Sub is also an option

[Lunakey]

I'm not even really that happy about being able to buy extra retainers with more money. F2P is a horrible cancer in MMORPGs, because it encourages the developers to actively make content worse -on purpose- so that they can then charge for convenience to bypass that content. There's no industry regulation, and F2P games are basically as crooked, unscrupulous and backhanded as it gets. One of the main reasons I'm playing FF14 is because it's -not- F2P, and I don't have to worry about developer$ $queezing every last ¢ent out of the players by any means necessary.

[Sessurea]

Square don't have to make this game F2P xD

[Farryn]

Snip

Couldn't agree with this more. Square should stick with the subscription model. F2P in MMO's almost always ends up becoming Pay-to-Win and for me that ruins the game.

I don't really think we are in danger of this happening though; for example, FFXI still uses the subscription model.

[Alavastre]

Depends on how you do it. In all honesty, it's hard because the gold sellers will use tons of free accounts which could make their job harder. But story and game play wise, FFXIV would benefit from having a free option up to level 20 and the Titan fight.

I also wouldn't mind a little cash shop that sold different armors or something once in a while. But that's me. I know most people hate the idea of paying for a sub, let alone the possibility of spending more on top of it. But that is the reality. SE is leaving money on the table because they don't have a cash shop.

But what game really is Pay to win? Why even mention it? That's always a fear that never manifests in Western MMO's.

[DoctorPepper]

But what game really is Pay to win? Why even mention it? That's always a fear that never manifests in Western MMO's.

I suppose that's a matter of opinion on the pay to win front. A lot of F2P games offer the ability to buy gear that's only 1-3 tiers below best in slot, thereby giving players with more money in real life an advantage over players who do not have extra real money to spend. Others sell items like exp boosts, gold boosts, etc. which have the same effect but on a smaller scale.

Personally, I consider those to be pay to win and that's why I mention it. I don't think that somebodies ability to play the game as effectively as somebody else should be determined by the amount of money they make in real life but more-so on the amount of time and effort they invest into the game. I'm good at IT and make good money in real life, that doesn't mean I should have an advantage over other people who make less. Last time I checked we're playing the game, not playing real life.

[L-D-Omlette]

Snip

I am of mixed feelings on this front. What advantage do you really have in a PVE environment?

Hypothetically, let's pretend that anyone could buy i100 gear with real money. Now, since you said you make good money, lets pretend that you decide to buy a full set of i100 gear. I decide that I can't afford it and so I decide to get i100 gear by farming tomes over the course of a few weeks. Am I at a disadvantage? Is there content that you can do that I cannot? Does you having i100 on April 3rd alter my ability to play the game and enjoy it? Does me having i100 on June 7th alter your ability to play the game and enjoy it? There already exist players that get different sets of gear at different times, I don't understand how this is any different.

If this had open world, gank anyone, anytime PVP I could see this being a problem, but as it is now, that isn't an issue. RMT, as it is now, would also disappear because they would have nothing to offer that you couldn't get legitimately.

The other things you mentioned, exp boosts, gold boosts, etc. just seem like time-savers. If I have limited time, but more funds, I can keep up with those that have more time and less cash.

All that said, I am not for P2W or non-cosmetic (fantasia?) microtransactions for this game, since that isn't what I signed up for. Just have a hard time understanding the vitriol the model gets.

[DoctorPepper]

I am of mixed feelings on this front. What advantage do you really have in a PVE environment?

I can see what you're saying and the honest answer is that the only advantage they get over you personally is time. I have to agree with you from one perspective because I play these games for fun and if it takes a few weeks to get something I enjoy doing it.

On the other hand, for competitive players that put a lot of effort into something, it's an insult and begins to feel like a waste of time if somebody can just go to the cash shop and buy that item you just spent days/weeks obtaining for $10, especially if you're a player that can't actually use the cash shop due to financial reasons.

All the cash shop does is add another layer of segregation between the rich and the poor, it basically says to the players that "it doesn't matter how much time/effort you put into the game as long as you're rich in real life" and I think the last thing we need is more disparity between the rich and the poor, especially in games which are supposed to be fun, but that's my opinion.

[L-D-Omlette]

Snip

This brings up another thing I don't understand. Why do people feel the need to brag about stuff they have, or can do in a game. If people in my FC or friends list accomplish a goal they have, I am happy for them, but that's only because I have a personal connection to them. I don't understand this need to "show off" in a digital world, or the real world for that matter.

Also, why should I give any weight to what a bunch of brats think? I don't play with a-holes now, why would I in that environment?

Snip

I want to be clear that I am not hoping that this game moves to that model, but I am interested in the discussion.

I agree that creating a disparity between player groups is a bad thing. I imagine if someone took these things into account at the onset of development they could implement some interesting counter measures.

I can't really speak to the competitive aspect, but if I were into that sort of gameplay, I suspect I would either redefine the rules of engagement, or not place myself into something that wasn't a fair playing field. One wouldn't play basketball w/ baseball rules w/o changing the game

Granted that couldn't apply if the model were to change suddenly, to which I could understand the frustration.

[Killance]

FF11 isn't F2P. FF14 ARR won't be F2P either.

Deal with that fact already.

[DoctorPepper]

FF11 isn't F2P. FF14 ARR won't be F2P either.

Deal with that fact already.

Did you even look the presentation over? Yoshida has an entire slide that basically says F2P isn't out of the question and that he thinks the 2 models can work together. Basically look at Rift/SWTOR/Tera/etc. and you'll see the exact model he's talking about. You can play for free but if you pay a sub you get additional services.

I think it's wonderful that you believe you can tell the future and I encourage you to continue trying but you should at least read the facts first. This is not FFXI and Yoshida also goes over the fact that they need to look at this game in a more modern sense rather than looking at the success of FFXI and trying to copy that.