The reason Summoner needs revamp threads keep popping up

[i2agnarok]

You will be buffing the avatars egi what else and dotting the mobs to increase the damage out put of the egi to the mob (just an idea)

I don't even....
So your Egi is DoTing.
You're buffing...with your two buffs that you have.
These buffs have a cooldown.
So now, either your DoTs are currently even more powerful than before because you've buffed the Egi.
And if you nerf DoT potency to compensate, it means its going to be useless when buffs are on cooldown.
Ultimately, this makes the Summoner worse than it currently is while doing nothing but making you feel like you're commanding it.
This sounds like a train wreck unless I am terribly misunderstanding you.

[Jediman]

who said regarding 2 buffs lets say summoners swaps the doting to Egi but you still have to use command for it because it won't be auto-piloting.
And have split secs to use certain ability for damage out to make it more challenging for all the egi you have. (just an idea again)
Also when I mean buff it can be for offensive mode or defensive mode.

Think about it you are attacking a mob fire type and it does a fire move Fire IV or something and you go defensive mode to reduced damage to egi.

Sorry about my crappy English >< since English is not my main language.

[Inosaska]

Meh the current smn is only just learning to use his summoning magic and soon once we have enough level increases will allow us to summon the primals themselves under our own will.

The beast tribes of Eorzea worship and summon forth beings known as primals, among which are Ifrit, Garuda, and Titan. Yet what is a god to one man is a demon to another, for the city-states of Eorzea see these beings as a grave threat to their collective survival. In times immemorial, there lived mages who had not only the power to summon the primals, but also the means to transmute the primals' essences, thus binding them to their will. Known simply as summoners, the existence of these men and women and their arcane art have been all but lost to the ages.

http://ffxiv.gamerescape.com/wiki/Summoner

[i2agnarok]

....They already take like no damage from AOEs anyway.
And they shouldn't be getting hit by anything else to begin with.
People in this game can't even dodge extremely telegraphed moves, let alone move their pets from them.
Its already been made super easy by having them take less damage.
A mechanic like that would just make things overly complicated in a game that's already extremely simply yet people have problem with.
I just don't think any of these things you're suggested would do nothing more than unnecessarily clutter the game.
The only thing I've even remotely agree with is changing the LB.
MAYBE doing something about the signature skill.
Anything I've seen suggested lately is already compensated by some other mechanic in the game or I've already expressed my thoughts on why it wouldn't work without receiving an answer.

I agree with Madoka, though.
Akiza just wants a gameshark.
I think you are too focused on the aesthetics and not the mechanics behind them, personally.
Your main focus is on the "interaction" with the Egi, but in 95% of FF games, there is little more to them than a big, flashy, super move or a super-being that is powerful enough to replace your entire party.
The former would be boring and extremely graphics-intensive, the latter is not happening in the current game.
I think it would be in your best interest to accept the DoT nature, instead push for reworking of the aesthetics behind the DoTs and move on.
I love Summoning stuff as much as the next guy, but it would not work in the current context of the game, mechanically or story-wise.

Meh the current smn is only just learning to use his summoning magic and soon once we have enough level increases will allow us to summon the primals themselves under our own will.

I REALLY don't think they're intending to let you Summon a Primal, on your own, with no ill consequences. The Summoner story already says that they summon a fragment of the Primals. Even the idea that Free Companies would eventually be able to summon their own Primals (whatever happened to that idea is another matter for another thread), there is no hint that a single summoner is ever going to be able to summon a complete Primal.

[Jediman]

Meh the current smn is only just learning to use his summoning magic and soon once we have enough level increases will allow us to summon the primals themselves under our own will.

so because of this statement they want to downgrade summoner egi. I have all ready spoken about this read post about black mage using swords and shields lol

The reason why I don't want it as DoT class is because SE will end up making it a full time chore on that side...they might end up downgrading the egi side of it.

Please, read my setence again, i said PEOPLE didn´t like them, same with these elitist that only play speedruns with BLM, because its faster.
SMN was a very good class, could be either a support or a offensive job role, And how would it cause screen lag if i may ask? Do you lag when you're fighting Ifrit?
Did you play XI? Avatars were not the real size of the actually avatars, If you're lagging because someone has a decent sized pet you might wanna consider upgrading your PC.

Obviously stuff will lag when you do events like Odin/Behemoth. But that was the same with big events in XI, Even w/o pets.

And lets even put away the size, The avatars right now, imho they are not even close how good they were in XI(i mean combat wise) you had total controll of countless abilities.

Good point when you have i5 quad core with Radeon HD 7970 plus 8gb ram you don't really see any lags. Most player are blaming the way the game is developed.

SE did not learn on what happened to ps2 when final fantasy XI surpassed graphic wise and dropped the support for PS2 later on I think history will repeat again for ps3 (thats whats holding back now for graphic)

[Blitzace]

They would cause problems both on screen lag and impeding the view to see mechanics of boss fights.

Please, read my setence again, i said PEOPLE didn´t like them, same with these elitist that only play speedruns with BLM, because its faster.
SMN was a very good class, could be either a support or a offensive job role, And how would it cause screen lag if i may ask? Do you lag when you're fighting Ifrit?
Did you play XI? Avatars were not the real size of the actually avatars, If you're lagging because someone has a decent sized pet you might wanna consider upgrading your PC.

Obviously stuff will lag when you do events like Odin/Behemoth. But that was the same with big events in XI, Even w/o pets.

And lets even put away the size, The avatars right now, imho they are not even close how good they were in XI(i mean combat wise) you had total controll of countless abilities.

[i2agnarok]

Do you lag when you're fighting Ifrit?

Apparently there's some extra fight I haven't gotten to where you fight Ifrit in a town or with more than 7 other players on the screen.
How do you plan to see Twintania mechanics when you have large Primals running around and grouped with the rest of your party?

If Odin/Behemoth lags or are very hard to see/target already, how is that NOT going to be a problem when you have bigger graphics on the screen?
And how do you expect to not lag in major cities when a bunch of these people are running around, when there can be choppiness with a bunch of people using the Behemoth mount?
This is terrible for the PS3 people already.
They can't even load Behemoth's sprite in certain conditions.

Yes, elitist that only play speedruns with BLM doesn't affect any other class in the game other than Summoner. /facepalm
Why is that even relevant to the topic at hand when that "issue" isn't exclusive to Summoner AT ALL.
I didn't play 11 long, but it sounds like these "countless abilities" didn't help the class in being picked up very often, judging by your original post.
Summoners in this game can solo about anything that CAN be solo'd, so I completely fail to see how they aren't good when they are one of the most damaging classes in the game.

[Blitzace]

Apparently there's some extra fight I haven't gotten to where you fight Ifrit in a town or with more than 7 other players on the screen.
How do you plan to see Twintania mechanics when you have large Primals running around and grouped with the rest of your party?

If Odin/Behemoth lags or are very hard to see/target already, how is that NOT going to be a problem when you have bigger graphics on the screen?

Where do you read that i or anyone else is asking for the actually size of a avatar? That would be plain stupid.

[i2agnarok]

Oy...

And how would it cause screen lag if i may ask? Do you lag when you're fighting Ifrit?
Avatars were not the real size of the actually avatars, If you're lagging because someone has a decent sized pet you might wanna consider upgrading your PC.

You aren't getting the avatars you got in XI. They would cause problems both on screen lag and impeding the view to see mechanics of boss fights.

He is referring entirely to the size of the avatar causing loading issues. The other 10 (exaggeration) clones of this thread are people, coming from 11, complaining about the Egis not looking like they do in 11 (along with certain degrees of interaction with them). He is directly referencing that. I have no idea how you missed that, yet managed to respond to him and talk about graphics cards.

[Duelle]

I think you are too focused on the aesthetics and not the mechanics behind them, personally.
Your main focus is on the "interaction" with the Egi, but in 95% of FF games, there is little more to them than a big, flashy, super move or a super-being that is powerful enough to replace your entire party.
The former would be boring and extremely graphics-intensive, the latter is not happening in the current game.
I think it would be in your best interest to accept the DoT nature, instead push for reworking of the aesthetics behind the DoTs and move on.
I love Summoning stuff as much as the next guy, but it would not work in the current context of the game, mechanically or story-wise.

I'll quote this for emphasis.

SMN doesn't need an overhaul since it is solidly designed and does what it does fairly well. The only real issues are Contagion/Shining Emerald being on the pet rather than the summoner (which makes Garuda/Emerald Carbuncle much more useful than Ifrit) and Ifrit needing better pathing and maybe a small damage boost. I'd get rid of Tri-disaster and replace it with Contagion/Shining Emerald, give Garuda-egi/Carbuncle something to replace Contagion/SE with (maybe an AoE bind?) and call it a day.