The reason Summoner needs revamp threads keep popping up

[MercuryD]

Is Akiza still ignoring that the Lore for THIS GAME is already set and refutes much, if not all, that she claims? An example off the top of my head, Primals being controlled by anyone.

[faris]

This really belongs in the lore forum, but...

...most still haven't bought into the lore reasons why we can't summon Primals or even the Twelve Gods of Eorzea to fight along wide us. Even in the lore it says Summoner's are Mages that can both Primals and bind their essence to our will. Square created a lore problem with the Egis anyways because it still takes more Aetheric Energy to create the Egi then it does to Summon the Primal.

Read the quest text. It doesn't take any aetheric energy to summon an egi, you've binded corrupted aether created by the Primal into an "egi", a vessel. "egi" is Allagan for "essence", and egis are not primals. The corruption was around before you came along, so no damage to the world is caused by you calling/dismissing it. You've just sealed the corruption, and are using it.

Because power can't disappear where did the power used in creating the Egi disappear to based on lore the Egis should be more powerful then the Original Primal. Also we should be able to augment the Primals power and summon a extremely powerful version of the primal as well as the Twelve Gods of Eorzea or any other magical beasts.

...wait what? Where does it even say a pale, small part of a Primal's aetheric corruption should be more powerful than the Primal itself? It doesn't say that anywhere.

[Akiza]

Square did a good job of making thee Summoner it's own job in this game the Arcanist uses channeling magic to summon Carbuncle and Topaz and the the Summoner merely enhances the Arcanist channeling magic. That's the problem the Summoner as a job stone transforms the base class it's attached to into a powerful Mage wielding massive amount of Summoning Magic not an extension of a dot class.

[faris]

Square did a good job of making thee Summoner it's own job in this game the Arcanist uses channeling magic to summon Carbuncle and Topaz and the the Summoner merely enhances the Arcanist channeling magic. That's the problem the Summoner as a job stone transforms the base class it's attached to into a powerful Mage wielding massive amount of Summoning Magic not an extension of a dot class.

There is no summoning magic. Arcanists arrange aether into mathematical patterns to form Carbuncle. Summoners arrange corrupted aether into form, defeat said form, and bind it into an egi. There's no difference, barring the soul of the summoner granting the summoner the ability to bind the aether into egis, rather than a carbuncle-like form.

Seriously, read the cutscenes again.

[Akiza]

There is no summoning magic. Arcanists arrange aether into mathematical patterns to form Carbuncle. Summoners arrange corrupted aether into form, defeat said form, and bind it into an egi. There's no difference, barring the soul of the summoner granting the summoner the ability to bind the aether into egis, rather than a carbuncle-like form.

Seriously, read the cutscenes again.

If the Arcanist's and Summoner arrange Aether into mathematical patterns than why are Arcanist's a disease Mage class and why can't Summoner's shape the corrupted Aether into the form of the Primal's for a short period of time.

[i2agnarok]

Arcanists arrange aether into mathematical patterns to form Carbuncle. Summoners arrange corrupted aether into form, defeat said form, and bind it into an egi. There's no difference, barring the soul of the summoner granting the summoner the ability to bind the aether into egis, rather than a carbuncle-like form.

I was doing something completely unrelated when I thought about this line randomly; in the context of the game, it actually makes perfect sense as to why you have poisons as dots if you're dousing them in corrupted aether. o_o

I've found the meaning of life! They actually should have at least mentioned this in the Arcanist story...

Also, Summoners manipulate that stuff Pyreflies are made of in FF10 to create Aeons that are bound to the Fayth's soul. The pyreflies and aether are functionally the exact same thing, and the Primals are the same as the Fayth; the only difference is that you're taking a fraction of their soul rather than being granted their full power as in other games. The concept is exactly the same as previous Summoners, but the scale is changed to fit the game balance (that and you're binding a malevolent entity).

All makes perfect sense to me.

[i2agnarok]

Summoner as a job stone transforms the base class it's attached to into a powerful Mage wielding massive amount of Summoning Magic not an extension of a dot class.

It is a Summoner by definition because the Summoner job itself simply allows the user to summon gaint a magica beasts. The Summoner isn't a pure job like White Mage or Black Mage it's a mixed job that gives the base job it's attached to powerful summoning magic which allows them to summon giant magiclal beasts.

Actually....

All of the dots are Arcanist abilities.
The Summoner stone changes all of your Carbunkles into Egis (and gives you a slot for a third).
It has changed the nature of your Summons.
The only thing you get as a Summoner are the pets and:

Fester
Tri-disaster
Spur
Enkindle

While Fester and Tri-Disaster have nothing to do with Summoning, Spur and Enkindle are 100% relevant to the Summons.
Your Carbuncles don't even have ultimate attacks, and you gain this only on the Summoner class.
Take away the Summoner stone and you have no Egis, no Ultimates, and no Spur, all completely related to the class.

Take away the Summoner stone and you still have...DOTS (and an extremely basic pet).
I see where they didn't want to give the Arcanist elemental abilities to differentiate it from BLM, and keep elements on the pet.
They made a step in the right direction with Ruin.
Really, if they just made them non-elemental dots instead of things that sound like diseases, maybe the whining wouldn't be as bad.

The Summoner stone gives you abilities that are all related to Summoning. I don't see what the problem is.
They aren't big and grandiose like they are in previous games.
I've covered that part in numerous posts, as have others.
I agree that the Egis aren't all that fantastic to look at.
They shouldn't be bigger.
You have no way to take "control" and force a Primal to submit to your will.
You aren't going to be a Summoner on the grand scale people are hoping for.
Everyone's covered this numerous times in various posts.
But the class itself functions fine.

I'm pretty sure that people changing to BLM is a personal preference. They are also a handy mechanic to have for Brayflox runs, which has nothing to do with SMN. People are probably just having fun nuking everything or trying to be efficient. There's even a thread asking why people are playing BLMs and almost no one is saying "because its better than SMN."

[Akiza]

Since Arcanist's and Summoner's arrange Aether into mathematical patterns they essentially have the ability to warp and create reality they can even decide what's real and what's unreal. An ability like that is equivalent to manipulating SpaceTime so Summoner's have the power to summon and control the Pimals now if a bunch of Arcanist's and Sunmoner's got together they'd be able to reshape reality into whatever they want.

[Bombast]

Since Arcanist's and Summoner's arrange Aether into mathematical patterns they essentially have the ability to warp and create reality they can even decide what's real and what's unreal. An ability like that is equivalent to manipulating SpaceTime so Summoner's have the power to summon and control the Pimals now if a bunch of Arcanist's and Sunmoner's got together they'd be able to reshape reality into whatever they want.

That's like saying Physicist can warp reality with calculus.

Arcanist believe that through study, they have come up with a mathematical system (Represented as geometry), that they can use to achieve certain results within the system of magic. They are not re-writing the laws of magic as they go along, only taking advantage of it, as they understand it.

[Ricdeau]

Since Arcanist's and Summoner's arrange Aether into mathematical patterns they essentially have the ability to warp and create reality they can even decide what's real and what's unreal. An ability like that is equivalent to manipulating SpaceTime so Summoner's have the power to summon and control the Pimals now if a bunch of Arcanist's and Sunmoner's got together they'd be able to reshape reality into whatever they want.

With what you are suggesting why would there be any other classes, or better yet what is the point of anything in the game if summoners can just bend reality to their will? You're going way overboard with how are you trying to define the class. If summoners can just change reality to what they want then why is there even threads from anything except from the possibility of other summoners that have a different agenda? However, I guess you'd be in full support of this since it would be all full of summoners all the time.