Archon Theorizing

[blackjackets]

Since Hatching-Tide rolled around and gave us a little tiny bit more information on the 'original twelve Archons' from the Sixth Umbral era, and since we have little to no information on our current Archons -- much to my eternal dismay -- I took it upon myself to come up with some theorizing on them.

So, we know that the first known appearance of the Archons was during the end of the Fifth Astral Era -- this is documented in the The Waning of the Sixth Sun lore video...thing.

The peoples of the Fifth Astral Era will be remembered for building their civilization on a foundation of magic, relentlessly tapping Hydaelyn of her lifeblood to indulge their decadence. The burden on the planet, however, would prove too great. Aetherial balance was lost, and the elements ran wild. At the urgent behest of a party of twelve shadowy figures history remembers only as the Archons, the nations agree to consolidate their remaining resources and form the Grand Companies of Eorzea in an attempt to forestall the coming apocalypse. But it was too little, too late. The damage done to Hydaelyn was irreversible, and people could only wait and watch as their fates played out.

Also of note, again, is the stuff spoken about in Hatching-TIde -- hopefully, when the rest of the quests are available we might get a little more. So far, though, our friend Jihli has this stuff to say:

The tradition began several years ago, after I was blessed with a vision by the Twelve Archons of ages past. These heroes are said to have lived through the Sixth Umbral Calamity, fighting bravely against an encroaching darkness that would have otherwise seen to the realm's destruction.

The rest of the questline is ridiculous, but at least we've got that.

That's basically all we know about the Twelve Archons from the Sixth Umbral Era, and we know even less about our friends in this era. Sadly. We know they're all from Sharlayan, and all are members of the Circle of Knowing -- and all have those tattoos/brands on their necks (or in Urianger and Louisoix's case, face). And....yeah. The rest of our information is all based on rumors caught throughout Eorzea in quest dialogue -- in, sadly, 1.0.

We have, first of all, several mentions of Urianger being one of the original Archons (cannot find source text, please help!), and rumors of the Archons being manifestations of the Twelve themselves, as mentioned in the 1.0 quest Of Archons and Muses --

Tyago Moui: Caught wind of all this Archon talk yet? Some folk make them for the very incarnations of the Twelve, come to Eorzea. Old prophecies and wives' tales say they descend from their heavenly seat whenever disaster threatens Eorzea, see.

Tyago Moui: Needless to say, many believe the Archons to have otherworldly powers─both of mind and body.

Tyago Moui: According to the loremasters' books, there was an age of shadow and calamity some fifteen hundred-odd years ago, when a great flood drowned the world─the sixth Umbral Era, they called it. Believers say it was the twelve Archons what came to fight the darkness then.

Now, I don't agree with that. It doesn't really make sense to me that the Twelve would do that, really. BUT -- and I came up with this as I was writing this post -- I have an alternative theory.

The Twelve are based on the original Twelve Archons. We don't know how long the Twelve as a belief system has been about, and especially with a world-changing event like a MASSIVE FLOOD, things are lost and remade. So...the survivors could have begun treating these twelve legendary figures as saviors, and then legends, and then gods. It's a similar thing to stuff that happens in real life to legendary characters of myth and folklore, yeah? And due to the way primals work, the sheer belief in the Twelve, even though they did not exist before they were believed in (due to them being based on real people), CREATED the Twelve. The belief in them brought them into being, like primals.

This is sort of supported by some more dialogue from the Of Archons and Muses quest --

Tyago Moui: They say Ahldbhar was the mightiest of the twelve Archons. Rhalgr the Destroyer himself, taken form in Roegadyn flesh─a bloody mountain of a man, and a fearsome warrior, besides. Not unlike our friend at the Coliseum, eh?

Tyago Moui: You must've seen renderings of Rhalgr at some point─in paint or stone. Looks like a bag of angry muscles in a mage's robes, right? Aye, well, those are done in the likeness of Archon Ahldbhar.

Tyago Moui: Ahldbhar fought relentlessly against a clan of wicked sorcerers that sought only to wreak havoc on the world through their dark powers. But then, something happened... Something that threw Ahldbhar into deep despair. And in the end, he turned and took up with the enemy, though none can say as to why.

Leading this into my other theory, I do believe that both Urianger and Louisoix are two of the original Twelve Archons (Louisoix, clearly, being the inspiration for Thaliak; I'm not sure about Urianger -- thinking either Byregot or Althyk), and have been around for 1500 years, yes. The rest of them (Yda, Papalymo, Y'shtola, Thancred) aren't, but are a lot older than they look anyway. I mean, they'd have had to take successors at some point.

I am possibly thinking that the brand, if they are immortal/unaging/something like that, is connected to it somehow. Which is why all the Archons have it.

(Don't ask about the twins bc I've got nothing.)

[Quintalian]

The talk of Ahldbhar fighting "a clan of wicked sorcerers" with dark powers likely refers to the Ascians. If that's true, then perhaps the fact that he fell into despair and joined them is related to Minfilia seeking the "true nature of the Echo" and Elidibus's claim that the users of the Echo are not that different from the Ascians. Perhaps Minfilia will be faced with a similar crisis of conscience when she discovers the answers she seeks...

Speaking of Minfilia, for a while I was getting her name confounded with Menphina. By your theory, perhaps she is the analog to that member of the Twelve? Perhaps she has a brand somewhere that we can't see. As for the Nald'thal, Alphinaud and Alisaie seem to be twins, right? They may be the modern successors of Nald and Thal. There's also the matter of G'raha Tia in the Crystal Tower quests, he also has the brand on his shoulder. Could he be related to Oschon, the Wanderer, who also wields a bow? That does leave several of the Twelve unaccounted for, of course...

What's more, during the opening movie, Louisoix clearly manifests the emblem of Althyk when using the spell that sends the Warriors of Light into the time rift. At first I thought he was merely invoking Althyk's power since mastery of space and time is attributed to Althyk, but perhaps the connection runs deeper?

CAUTION -- SPOILERS AHEAD

---
If that is the case, could it be that "the key which only [Alphinaud and Alisaie] possess" is actually "the key to the gates of the underworld" or something similar? Nald'thal are the keepers of the underworld, and making sure that the dead remain dead would be a fitting task for them. The idea that Louisoix's shade would require invoking such an ability is an intriguing one, considering that it might reveal the nature of the Circle of Knowing members, if this theory is indeed true.

[gornotck]

Considering how little Minfilia wears, that seems difficult to believe.

But as for pairing up the Twelve with the Circle of Knowing...

Alphinaud and Alisaie as Nald'Thal, Thancred as Byregrot, Y'shtola as Llymlaen, Yda as Nymeia, Papalymo as Rhalgr, Urianger as Althyk, and Louisoix as Thaliak?

[Akoree]

So Louisoix would have attempted to summon his own powers to stop Bahamut and the rest of the crew would have prayed at altars of themselves to help him out?

Not to discredit the entire theory, because I think its a very interesting idea, but I think this is very unlikely to be true. =/

[RickiFake02]

Considering how little Minfilia wears, that seems difficult to believe.

But as for pairing up the Twelve with the Circle of Knowing...

Alphinaud and Alisaie as Nald'Thal, Thancred as Byregrot, Y'shtola as Llymlaen, Yda as Nymeia, Papalymo as Rhalgr, Urianger as Althyk, and Louisoix as Thaliak?

I hve a hard time picturing Papalymo os Rhalgr the Destroyer.

[Quintalian]

Well, darn. It seems this theory isn't so new after all, but perhaps that does lend credence to it.

Now, you say Minfilia wears 'little', however she's actually covering more now than in 1.x. Still, she has always worn long gloves; if she has a mark, it could be on her hand or forearm.

Also, Rhalgr is a mage with a staff who's known as Nymeia's attendant. Papalymo is a mage with a staff who's Yda's constant companion. There does seem to be a bit of similarity there.

[Saikou]

Thancred is kinda a hilarious matchup, but it fits his M.O.

Alphinaud & Alisaie=Nald & Thal (twins that together make the entity Nald'thal)
MIA Roegadyn= Rhalgr (this is from 1.0)
Louisoux= Thaliak (he actually bears his mark)
Yda= Halone (see Papalymo)
Papalymo= Oschon (some people don't get this connection, Halone and Oschon are companions, one's a fighter and one is represented by a walking stick)
Y'Shtola= Nophica (Goddess of soils and harvests, represented by leaves....)
Minfilia= Azyema (noble woman and Goddess of Inquiry)
Urianger= Altyk (Austere personality)
Thancred= Menphinia (The Lover)

[Phyllo]

I don't think Minphilia is one, after all

SPOILER

She was just a kid back in V.1 during the echo stories, yet the archons were already at least around 20-25.
Besides she comes from Ala Mhigo, not Sharlayan.

SPOILER OFF

And about the Roegadyn they mention in the other thread, Greinfarr, he isn't either, He's just the son of one of the syndicate member like the rest of Niel's group, besides, Thancred would have recognized him at the very beginning of V.1 if he was an archon too.

[PArcher]

Here's something that's bugging me. The 2.2 storyline (I need to re-watch that cutscene to be sure, so sorry if I'm completely wrong)...doesn't it pretty much say that Thancred was from Limsa? Or did he just spend a ton of time there in his youth? (which also makes me wonder why he is in charge of Thanalan, not La Noscea)

If that's true...does it really matter that Minfilia is from Ala Mhigo?

It would also be interesting to see what happens with you...specifically with what happens in the last quest of the Hatching Tide event...though I'm not sure that really has any bearing on the story, or if its just fluff :\

[Phyllo]

Now that you say it it's kinda weird xD

Well what I meant is that all archon come from sharlayan (the real island not the city they made as an outpost) but mi filial was born in Ala mhigo, and then raised by F'lhaminn when her father died, when she discovered her power of the echo and realized she wasn't the only one with it, she made her little group which eventually grown as big as it is now, in the original story she have no connexion to any archon beside Thancred who watched over her for a few days after her daddy passed away and then investigated his death, that's all.
I do not know exactly what happened in yoshida's team story tho so I can't say but at first she doesn't.
My memory is fuzzy so I might be wrong at some point but I'm pretty sure most of it is accurate u-u

Heeeee... Most likely something for fun, but who knows, maybe they hide plot in it x3