Is a Parser ever comming?

[Gilraen]

I don't think anyone is arguing that people shouldn't be kicked from duty finder groups unless they are utterly incapable of performing their job. However, what is the problem with the use of group performance analytical tools in party finder groups (which is the norm for serious content where performance is actually important, since dungeons are faceroll)?

Sometimes people Party Finder for most of their group then Duty Finder the remainder. I know I do sometimes when there's not enough people to fill the party. Are you going to hold your ringers to the same standards as your Partied people? What about the rest of your Party, will they be civil about them? It's hard to assume for one thing and brush off all other variables and not have it come back to bite you. I have no doubt Square's been doing this same thinking.

[Raenryong]

Have you tried giving people useful feedback? It often ends in hostility, no matter how nicely you put it.

Ultimately, it is not my responsibility to ensure people are performing to adequate levels of DPS. I'm happy to help if you want it, but not at the expense of the run I'm currently trying to do. Work on your DPS on your own time, and then join runs requiring serious performance! Guides and training dummies (and parsers) exist for this purpose!

[Raenryong]

If you hit the Duty Finder button, you have no right to complain about people you get as they have not signed up to your standards. If you form a full PF group, you have every right to complain. If the person is ultimately completely incapable of performing their role in a duty finder group then I find removing them acceptable (note: "completely incapable" literally meaning that. Not meaning sub-par performance), but aside from that, if you hit that DF button then you sacrifice a great amount of control over your group.

[Demetirus]

I'm not going to follow this thread as I'm sure it's devolved into insults and finger pointing, but I will say that in my experience some folks will use parsers as they should and a large majority will not. I think it sucks for those who want a legit way to gauge themselves (and I said I wouldn't do this, but looking through someone suggested a self-parse only... though I'm already thinking of ways that could be abused too) but most people wouldn't use it to improve themselves. No matter what our experiences are with these things (mine have been terrible in WoW, even when I was generally top or near) the potential for abuse leaves me hoping these things never make it in. If they do, I'll deal, but I'm against it.

[Fated]

I don't need a parser to figure out whether you're terrible or not. I want it so I can gauge my specific DPS in varying situations without getting smited by incompetent GMs following stupid rules.

[Nel_Celestine]

I'm really hoping they don't get added ever. Because then people will demand they are used. Once they are demanded they are used people will be judged harshly for not meeting the numbers that only the top raiders have. "Oh well you can get better with practice and gear!" Please, tell me how people will improve with 'practice and gear' if they are kicked from parties for not having super high DPS already. Allowing parsers is allowing a majority of their users to draw lines in the sand and insult everyone who doesn't cross it. Not everyone is the highest Tier BlueGartr level of skill. Not everyone has rotations locked down to milliseconds. Not everyone has every dungeon mechanic, skill, and ability memories categorized and prioritized for maximum DPS / Heals / Tanking / avoiding damage. Not everyone lives in lag free locations. Not everyone uses VPNs. Opening this gate will just lead to more and more outlandish requirements for content based solely on what the top raiding group can accomplish.

If they are added I'll just be forced to deal with them, but I honestly expect that it will get out of control.

[Raenryong]

Guides, videos, training dummies (with parser use!), asking for help.

Do you argue that people are not free to choose who they want to play with, and discriminate based on ability? Why are high skill players/groups obligated to carry lower skill players through content? Everyone should be free to play this game how they wish and with who they wish - this not only applies to casuals but "elitists" too.

[Nel_Celestine]

Guides, videos, training dummies (with parser use!), asking for help.

Do you argue that people are not free to choose who they want to play with, and discriminate based on ability? Why are high skill players/groups obligated to carry lower skill players through content? Everyone should be free to play this game how they wish and with who they wish - this not only applies to casuals but "elitists" too.

I've not once said they should be carried. However I'm expecting that attitude of yours to get worse with parsers. If DPS aren't the absolute best then they are "being carried" if they aren't perfect with rotations they are "being carried." It's stuff like this that are the reasons people don't want the parsers. Because even in your noblest point there are tons of shadows it will cast over the community and basically tear it apart into those who are the parser accepted and those who will be kicked and insulted.

[Raenryong]

I've not once said they should be carried. However I'm expecting that attitude of yours to get worse with parsers. If DPS aren't the absolute best then they are "being carried" if they aren't perfect with rotations they are "being carried." It's stuff like this that are the reasons people don't want the parsers. Because even in your noblest point there are tons of shadows it will cast over the community and basically tear it apart into those who are the parser accepted and those who will be kicked and insulted.

I never said I demanded perfection, but if you're not doing good DPS you are effectively being carried. Nobody is going to complain about someone doing 220-240 DPS, as while it's not fantastic, it is serviceable in all content up to Turn 4. That doesn't require perfection by any means.

Someone who is doing below 180 DPS in Titan EX for instance however is being carried and it would be a boon to the group if they were replaced.

[Nel_Celestine]

Someone who is doing below 180 DPS in Titan EX for instance however is being carried and it would be a boon to the group if they were replaced.

"Sorry, you suck at your class. Go learn to play before you try content again. Your DPS was only XYZ and you need to be at least ABC because Blue Gartr does it with BCD."


People won't learn if they are just told "Go watch Youtube" and "You suck because parsers told me so." It will just make the game worse.