Duty Finder and troublesome players

[KiraVaela]

I do not see a question anywhere there. I tend to think opinions are personal and should not be argued or discussed, so i can only answer that i have noted it.

Please, stop picking up words that suits you while dodging anything relevant and either start a serious discussion with me on the matter or just leave it. This is public official forums, your opinions here are discussed and argued, so deal with it. If you are not ready for this or you want to keep it personal, then don't post at all or just pm me. If you expect everyone to just blindly nod to you, then you are in the wrong place. Don't just faceroll your keyboard making random statements only to blindly defend your nonsense afterwards just for the sake of it.

I'm sick of the amount of blablabla people are able to come up with here while the point is not being touched in the slightest.

[lxSch]

Please, stop picking up words that suits you while dodging anything relevant and either start a serious discussion with me on the matter or just leave it. This is public official forums, your opinions here are discussed and argued, so deal with it. If you are not ready for this or you want to keep it personal, then don't post at all or just pm me. If you expect everyone to just blindly nod to you, then you are in the wrong place. Don't just faceroll your keyboard making random statements only to blindly defend your nonsense afterwards just for the sake of it.

I'm sick of the amount of blablabla people are able to come up with here while the point is not being touched in the slightest.

If you wish to discuss something i ask not to call something nonsense, because otherwise there is nothing to discuss, isn't it?
Going back to your point in the first message:

I strongly disagree with your approach here if this is what you do.

Firstly, being in a group where someone is clearly hindering the group is not YOUR problem, but the problem of the group in the first place. It's not only you who is experiencing troubles, it's everyone. Maybe you are the only one experienced enough to notice it. In which case you should feel obligated to at least try to fix the problem by pointing it out politely, trying to communicate, or just something... By leaving without saying a word you solve YOUR problem and create even bigger problem for other 3 people in the group at the same time. That seems a bit selfish to me. The guy really could be just very new to this game and he might be able to correct his mistakes the second he realizes there are some (by someone else pointing it out, happened countless times to me). You never know.

Similar situation happened to me recently where tank in low level roulette would just play very badly, he would not response or try to do anything to keep aggro better. I tried few times to explain, it didn't work out, so I left because I clearly saw there is next to no chance of finishing the dungeon in time. But this is at least the absolute minimum you can do before leaving and I strongly believe this is the correct approach. If you see a problem, point it out politely after some time and you still get flamed for this, it's not your fault and you can leave with clear conscience.

Try to think over it.

I had no successful cases of players improving after advices given (i was practicing it for a long time before) - they always either start to argue and do the opposite or completely ignore.
Thus i changed my method to a different: i try to set the circumstances in the way people should notice the problem and try to solve it on their own, and it works well.
The best example is the 2nd chest in WP: if i tell people not to open it - they will open, if i mark it "target to ignore" - they will open it too. If i ask people not to speed run - they will either speed run or dismiss me. When i ask paladins to weave CoS between flashes - they always just ignore me (it is a class skill, every lv50 gla has it)
After months of failed attempts i simply stopped talking to people. I usually started my messages like this: "Xx could you please use ?Circle of Scorn? to keep the enmity better?" - i do not think it is too rude to ignore.

[Clockwork_Pinkie]

Not sure if it classifies, but this happened to be twice in a row, leveling my scholar, did one Halatali and one Manor. Got two mages that did nothing but spam blizzard the entire time. What gives.

[Cedane]

Your all pretty. Done. Case closed!

On a more serious matter... people play MMOs for different reasons. Everyone gets their own perspective in what they play and everyone will always have a unique experience taken from it. Instead of going to 20+ more pages arguing the same thing, why not agree to disagree and just remember this one, tiny fact? Don't be a douche-face, be kind and considerate and if someone isn't? Move on, or don't. Or report them since blackmail to get kicked is actually a violation to the game's TOS and they take that seriously.

I'd rather be kind and considerate. I have met so many people who were new playing as a tank, a healer, or DPS. I have all three roles. Especially if I am a tank, I'll stop and try to help them IF I know the class. Most of the time, it does work. People listen. When I was doing it wrong in Paladin, people told me what I was doing wrong and helped me out to make me the player that I am. If IxSch is saying she's right, then... well, she's not. I've listened to people's input and I know there are others.

Your going to find bad players in the barrel. Yeah, it happens. Isn't it better to grin and bear it and just have fun? This IS a game. This isn't something to "pity the horrible people" and shame them for it. This is a game. A game everyone is playing. So why don't we enjoy the game together and not make it miserable for everyone else? The fact that is even a THING, to encourage people to "shun the bad and glorify the good!" in a game called Final Fantasy is really, really bad.

If there are people who seriously believe that and I see them, I would rather leave and help new people then to be judged to their own personal needs.

[lxSch]

If IxSch is saying she's right, then... well, she's not.

Opinion is a preference and cannot be wrong - people just do or think what they prefer >.<

[Cedane]

Opinion is a preference and cannot be wrong - people just do or think what they prefer >.<

Except you use your opinion as a fact. You speak everything, over 10 pages, as if it were a fact and then hide it under the veil of an opinion. You shouldn't do that. Instead, let me just say this: If you want to help people in the duty finder, then help them. Stop encouraging people to be mean to people with your opinion. It's not the right way nor will it ever be. If you don't want to, then let it be because your contributing to absolutely nothing. Don't use the Duty Finder if you don't like new people and just play with your friends/free company members. Let everyone else help the new folk and deal with those who choose to listen and those who do not. Your wrong, and you aren't helping matters.

Stop treating your facts as if they are opinions.

Anyway...

I know it is difficult to show people what to do. You can't help everyone. I've had a terrible tank that I stopped the entire dungeon for and tried to explain. He had the wrong gear, didn't use flash and was on the PS4. Once he realized flash worked, everything was fine. He still didn't understand everything but I recommended some guides and we finished the dungeon with ease. Did he improve? I don't know. Did we finish? We did. One person left because they were new but the rest of the part stuck it out and helped him. That is why the low-level duty finder exists.

I like to help new people whenever I can. For pete's sakes, when I grinded nothing but Thornmarch because I wanted the moogle sword(Glamor purposes!), I learnt the entire thing where I had nothing but new people. It was easy to explain the fight and get the numbers down to each moogle. Sometimes, we wiped. Thats okay. I shrugged, saw what was wrong, pointed it out and we got it the second or third try.

I had one person who screamed speedrun to me when I was the PLD. I tried it and died horribly. I am not into speedruns and that one wipe made him cool it down a bit. I tried, it didn't work, but we adjusted. We still got it done and got the reward at the end.

Don't be afraid to explain. You won't be able to help everyone as, yeah, you'll get some who won't listen period. Just grin and bear it. The next one will always work.

[lxSch]

Except you use your opinion as a fact. You speak everything, over 10 pages, as if it were a fact and then hide it under the veil of an opinion. You shouldn't do that. Instead, let me just say this: If you want to help people in the duty finder, then help them. Stop encouraging people to be mean to people with your opinion. It's not the right way nor will it ever be. If you don't want to, then let it be because your contributing to absolutely nothing. Don't use the Duty Finder if you don't like new people and just play with your friends/free company members. Let everyone else help the new folk and deal with those who choose to listen and those who do not. Your wrong, and you aren't helping matters.

Stop treating your facts as if they are opinions.

Then provide a quote where i used opinion on the topic as a fact. Also i never said i dislike new people.

[KiraVaela]

If you wish to discuss something i ask not to call something nonsense, because otherwise there is nothing to discuss, isn't it?
Going back to your point in the first message:

I reserve the right to call something a nonsense when I see one, similarly how you feel entitled to think I cannot get a grasp on something you write, while in reality it could be just you failing to explain something correctly. Just a basic fair play. Anyways, the nonsens I'm reffering to is this:

"Would i solve the cause by explaining what to do in a particular certain situation? No, i will only make it worse because their problem will become much harder to notice."

Are you saying that it's harder for someone to notice there is a problem when you point it out? How is this not a nonsense?

I had no successful cases of players improving after advices given (i was practicing it for a long time before) - they always either start to argue and do the opposite or completely ignore.
Thus i changed my method to a different: i try to set the circumstances in the way people should notice the problem and try to solve it on their own, and it works well.
The best example is the 2nd chest in WP: if i tell people not to open it - they will open, if i mark it "target to ignore" - they will open it too. If i ask people not to speed run - they will either speed run or dismiss me. When i ask paladins to weave CoS between flashes - they always just ignore me (it is a class skill, every lv50 gla has it)
After months of failed attempts i simply stopped talking to people. I usually started my messages like this: "Xx could you please use ?Circle of Scorn? to keep the enmity better?" - i do not think it is too rude to ignore.

I find this hard to believe. On my server, I have run good amount of lower level dungeons with unexperienced players recently and as long as I'm not a dick about it, they listen to my advices and try to correct their mistakes. Of course you will run into bad players who will be flaming you for anything here and there. But I truly believe that if you are polite and nice to people, more often then not they will listen.

That said, if your method works well for you, I'm not going to try to convince you. It's fine. But you seem to try to convince everyone else their approach is wrong and that your method is the correct one. Which, frankly, is the issue I (and I believe others as well) have with you.

[Cedane]

Snip

She isn't going to listen. They are extremely stuck on their way and they will not stop. At the end of the day, the amount of passion and good will you and everyone else have is really nice. I do like your method!

[SummonerSenah]

“To help yourself, help others. Whatever good you do travels a circle and returns to you many times over- but remember, life isn't about what you get, it's about what you become.” - Dennis Gaskill

That's kind of what I try to do. If you help people when they need it, generally they will help you when you need it. If you help players become better, they can help other players become better. It benefits the whole community when you pay it forward.