Overpower vs Steel Cyclone

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

how come people keep telling me Overpower induces more Enmity then Steel Cyclone?

this is illogical to me.




is it true though? which one causes more Enmity? anyone?

[sylent09]

I would imagine steel cyclone.....but honestly using one flash one over power and then steel cyclone should have zero issues holding hate

[ManaKeKz]

The skills have different threat multipliers. Overpower uses a x4 multiplier, so threat = damage x 4. Steel Cyclone sadly is on a x1 multiplier, so while the damage is much higher, the resulting threat is lower. Defiance is a 50% threat boost with 25% damage reduce, so the total numbers look something like this:
OP = 120 pot * 0,75 * 4 * 1,5 = 540
SC = 200 pot * 1,5 = 300

* This is assuming that the Threat tables at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/enmity-tables/ are accurate

[PacAttack]

The last time that enmity table was updated was a very, long time ago. The Steel Cyclone modifier is incorrect as it was boosted in Patch 2.1.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

hm. Flash. i stopped using Flash a while ago. it's useful on WAR at lower levels. though it can still be useful at any level to WAR. because it won't interrupt your combo.

however i'm not having any issues holding aggro without it.

besides i can only use like 3 or 4 times. during long fights like at CT it won't be very reliable through the whole fight. and then in typical dungeon runs. the MP doesn't even restore quick enough to consistently use it from one mob to the next. so if you do use Flash on a WAR. i think your best bet is to use it at the right times. times when you need to make hate, but don't want to interrupt your combo. but everyone has a different play style

too bad Steel Cyclone isn't an off-GCD action. :P



in any case... i have had more then one person say that Overpower induces more Enmity then Steel Cyclone. this just doesn't seem right to me. people could be trolling. but i had to ask the community to find out. just in case

[whiskeybravo]

Steel Cyclone does not incur damage penalty from Defiance.. Assuming threat multiplier is the same (x3 or x5) SC is higher potency + no penalty.. But you can pump out OP after OP after OP, unlike SC.

Use both!

Flash.. I still use flash, mostly on T4, because you don't need a target to use it and it can help you save some TP. A lot of times the bard is running ballad so you can flash more than normal.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

The last time that enmity table was updated was a very, long time ago. The Steel Cyclone modifier is incorrect as it was boosted in Patch 2.1.

can you re-call if before the 2.1 update if Steel Cyclone stated in the tooltip, "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity"? or something like that.


if not... then i am thinking the multiplier is also now applied to Steel Cyclone. which would certainly cause Steel Cyclone to make more hate then Overpower.

[Kitru]

The last time that enmity table was updated was a very, long time ago. The Steel Cyclone modifier is incorrect as it was boosted in Patch 2.1.

Yep. Defiance is now a 2x multiplier, SC has a 3x multiplier, and Overpower has a 3x multiplier. Since the Defiance enmity buff is the same for both, you don't really have to factor it in so the only difference is the 25% damage penalty to Overpower and difference in enmity multipliers.

Overpower: 120 * .75 * 5 = 450 ePot
Steel Cyclone: 200 * 3 = 600 ePot

As such, SC generates more than Overpower in most circumstances; however, Overpower generates more over time since you can spam Overpower whereas the most you can use SC is 4 times per minute (~20 secs to get 5 Wrath and 1 extra from Infuriate), not that you want to do this because Overpower is expensive as hell and SC is completely free. If you use Unchained, Overpower will generate the exact same enmity as SC, though, as I mentioned before, I wouldn't recommend it because Overpower is expensive as hell but SC is basically free (and still does more damage).

[whiskeybravo]

can you re-call if before the 2.1 update if Steel Cyclone stated in the tooltip, "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity"? or something like that.


if not... then i am thinking the 4x multiplier is also now applied to Steel Cyclone. which would certainly cause Steel Cyclone to make more hate then Overpower.

No.. Before 2.0 SC did not increase enmity. This was added when they made other adjustments to Warrior and tank hate generation overall.

[FallenWings]

The skills have different threat multipliers. Overpower uses a x4 multiplier, so threat = damage x 4. Steel Cyclone sadly is on a x1 multiplier, so while the damage is much higher, the resulting threat is lower. Defiance is a 50% threat boost with 25% damage reduce, so the total numbers look something like this:
OP = 120 pot * 0,75 * 4 * 1,5 = 540
SC = 200 pot * 1,5 = 300

* This is assuming that the Threat tables at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/enmity-tables/ are accurate

That was Steel cyclone pre 2.1 when it didn't even have an emnity multiplier, hence x1.

Post 2.1 it gained an Enmity modifier. I've used it several times as an AoE snap aggro and it has worked spectacularly. I'm not sure on its exact number but from experience, it's almost like applying Butchers Block to everything you hit.

Infuriate, Steel Cyclone, Overpower x2. Enmity is now a non-issue.