Overpower vs Steel Cyclone

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

how come people keep telling me Overpower induces more Enmity then Steel Cyclone?

this is illogical to me.




is it true though? which one causes more Enmity? anyone?

[sylent09]

I would imagine steel cyclone.....but honestly using one flash one over power and then steel cyclone should have zero issues holding hate

[ManaKeKz]

The skills have different threat multipliers. Overpower uses a x4 multiplier, so threat = damage x 4. Steel Cyclone sadly is on a x1 multiplier, so while the damage is much higher, the resulting threat is lower. Defiance is a 50% threat boost with 25% damage reduce, so the total numbers look something like this:
OP = 120 pot * 0,75 * 4 * 1,5 = 540
SC = 200 pot * 1,5 = 300

* This is assuming that the Threat tables at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/enmity-tables/ are accurate

[FallenWings]

The skills have different threat multipliers. Overpower uses a x4 multiplier, so threat = damage x 4. Steel Cyclone sadly is on a x1 multiplier, so while the damage is much higher, the resulting threat is lower. Defiance is a 50% threat boost with 25% damage reduce, so the total numbers look something like this:
OP = 120 pot * 0,75 * 4 * 1,5 = 540
SC = 200 pot * 1,5 = 300

* This is assuming that the Threat tables at http://valk.dancing-mad.com/tables/enmity-tables/ are accurate

That was Steel cyclone pre 2.1 when it didn't even have an emnity multiplier, hence x1.

Post 2.1 it gained an Enmity modifier. I've used it several times as an AoE snap aggro and it has worked spectacularly. I'm not sure on its exact number but from experience, it's almost like applying Butchers Block to everything you hit.

Infuriate, Steel Cyclone, Overpower x2. Enmity is now a non-issue.

[Kitru]

I'm not sure on its exact number but from experience, it's almost like applying Butchers Block to everything you hit.

BB has a 5x enmity modifier and does 280 potency, which is 1400 potency, without factoring in Defiance. If you want to factor it in, it's 2100 (do the same for SC and you get 1200) so it's a helluva lot more than SC. It would be more accurate to say that it's like getting slightly less than a Skull Sunder crit on everything around you (Skull Sunder is 200 * 3 * .75 * 2 = 900; crit is 50% more, which is 1350).

[PacAttack]

The last time that enmity table was updated was a very, long time ago. The Steel Cyclone modifier is incorrect as it was boosted in Patch 2.1.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

The last time that enmity table was updated was a very, long time ago. The Steel Cyclone modifier is incorrect as it was boosted in Patch 2.1.

can you re-call if before the 2.1 update if Steel Cyclone stated in the tooltip, "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity"? or something like that.


if not... then i am thinking the multiplier is also now applied to Steel Cyclone. which would certainly cause Steel Cyclone to make more hate then Overpower.

[whiskeybravo]

can you re-call if before the 2.1 update if Steel Cyclone stated in the tooltip, "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity"? or something like that.


if not... then i am thinking the 4x multiplier is also now applied to Steel Cyclone. which would certainly cause Steel Cyclone to make more hate then Overpower.

No.. Before 2.0 SC did not increase enmity. This was added when they made other adjustments to Warrior and tank hate generation overall.

[Kitru]

can you re-call if before the 2.1 update if Steel Cyclone stated in the tooltip, "Additional Effect: Increased Enmity"? or something like that.

It did not. Pre-2.1, SC was just pure damage. If you don't believe me, go check the 2.1 patch notes. It explicitly says "Now generates increased enmity".

if not... then i am thinking the 4x multiplier is also now applied to Steel Cyclone. which would certainly cause Steel Cyclone to make more hate then Overpower.

Overpower's enmity generation was also increased in 2.1 (check the patch notes).

As to the enmity modifiers, those are a known quantity because the enmity generated on enemies you're in combat with is stored clientside so the parsers (which hook into the game's memory) can find the explicit amount gained with a given attack. Since you can also see the damage, it's simple arithmetic to figure out what the multipliers are.

[Kitru]

The last time that enmity table was updated was a very, long time ago. The Steel Cyclone modifier is incorrect as it was boosted in Patch 2.1.

Yep. Defiance is now a 2x multiplier, SC has a 3x multiplier, and Overpower has a 3x multiplier. Since the Defiance enmity buff is the same for both, you don't really have to factor it in so the only difference is the 25% damage penalty to Overpower and difference in enmity multipliers.

Overpower: 120 * .75 * 5 = 450 ePot
Steel Cyclone: 200 * 3 = 600 ePot

As such, SC generates more than Overpower in most circumstances; however, Overpower generates more over time since you can spam Overpower whereas the most you can use SC is 4 times per minute (~20 secs to get 5 Wrath and 1 extra from Infuriate), not that you want to do this because Overpower is expensive as hell and SC is completely free. If you use Unchained, Overpower will generate the exact same enmity as SC, though, as I mentioned before, I wouldn't recommend it because Overpower is expensive as hell but SC is basically free (and still does more damage).