Is Hydaelyn a primal?

[Kazamoto]

That whole we're tempered thing...

I do rememeber Hydaelyn asking me:
"Would you kindly save the day?"
"Would you kindly speed run WP"
"Would you kindly glamor your allagan visor to look like your myth hat"..

And then I kinda just did...

[Tupsi]

If they follow the creativity of FFXI she could actually have a physical manifestation beyond just being the planet or Mothercrystal.

[KyahAlmasy]

-snip-

In actuality once a primal has had enough crystals to be called into the corporeal world they no longer require crystals to sustain their existence, only to heal and replenish them should they get injured. When we meet Hydaelyn she is in a very diminished state, she has very little to no powers and requires us to go out and collect these crystals to rejuvenate her. And Menfila has stated in 1.0 that no one ever asked for the Echo, Hydaelyn in a sense did sort of forced the echo on whomever she felt fit, which is very similar to how Primals go about choosing their hosts. Much like how Ifrit told us to bathe in his flames, Hydaelyn had us bathe in her light. There was never any choice in the matter.

I also don't agree that Hydaelyn is the source of all life on the planet, because that would be drawing a parallel between her and a god/diety of her realm. In which she would omnipotent, and self-sustaining and wouldn't really need us to collect crystals for her. Also every beastman tribe refers to their primal as a god, or father/mother. It doesn't really mean that they are their creators, more like guardians, and protectors much like parents would be.

And tempering doesn't exactly mean that the host is stripped of all their freewill, it merely suggests that it converts individuals them to follow their cause. Much like how our test in life was to do everything Hydaelyn asked of us since arriving here in Eorzea. A tempered host does not need to force their will upon anyone, they follow willingly. And I've never heard of anyone using the Echo for entirely selfish reasons.

[Enkidoh]

In actuality once a primal has had enough crystals to be called into the corporeal world they no longer require crystals to sustain their existence, only to heal and replenish them should they get injured. When we meet Hydaelyn she is in a very diminished state, she has very little to no powers and requires us to go out and collect these crystals to rejuvenate her. And Menfila has stated in 1.0 that no one ever asked for the Echo, Hydaelyn in a sense did sort of forced the echo on whomever she felt fit, which is very similar to how Primals go about choosing their hosts. Much like how Ifrit told us to bathe in his flames, Hydaelyn had us bathe in her light. There was never any choice in the matter.

I also don't agree that Hydaelyn is the source of all life on the planet, because that would be drawing a parallel between her and a god/diety of her realm. In which she would omnipotent, and self-sustaining and wouldn't really need us to collect crystals for her. Also every beastman tribe refers to their primal as a god, or father/mother. It doesn't really mean that they are their creators, more like guardians, and protectors much like parents would be.

I guess it all comes down to perspective, so you're right about that in one way. However, there is clearly a difference between aetheric entities like Primals, and the Mothercrystal itself - and that says nothing about exactly what the Twelve are too, if they even exist (Gaius certainly didn't see any distinction between the Primals and the Twelve during his big 'the reason you suck speech' in the Praetorium).

Perhaps there really is a certain truth to what he was saying all along, that the Primals and the Twelve are both 'false gods', just aetheric entities sucking the aether from the world to survive, where as the Mothercrystal is the real 'god' in the world (and if that Echo vision of the 'dark crystal' in the ending is anything to go by, that does fit into the Ascians' belief in Zodiark being the 'one true god' (if the Dark Crystal is Zodiark for that matter) - that would simply make Hydaelyn and Zodiark two sides of the same coin - virtually the same entity, just one light and the other dark (and would very much fit into the standard FF concept of 'light vs dark', ala FFIII). It's an interesting concept in any event.

And tempering doesn't exactly mean that the host is stripped of all their freewill, it merely suggests that it converts individuals them to follow their cause. Much like how our test in life was to do everything Hydaelyn asked of us since arriving here in Eorzea. A tempered host does not need to force their will upon anyone, they follow willingly.

Because they don't have too - when we see tempering in action (ala, Ifrit), the struggling captives immediately become zealous towards the Primal, and are regarded as being like that forever. It's what Thancred repeatedly stated, that tempered, despite being innocent victims, are henceforth a danger to the citystates as the Primal draws it's power from their now zealous worship (and hence because there isn't any way to reverse the process, they have to be executed).

And I've never heard of anyone using the Echo for entirely selfish reasons.

I mentioned this in another thread recently in the Lore section, but it happened in 1,0 in the Path of the Twelve - speaking to some of the npcs in there (especially when you were given leave to decide whether to join or not), some of the other 'woken' there mention how the Echo either drove them to despair, resulting in them committing less than satisfactory acts (like they guy who lost his wife to another man, whom he admitted 'the Echo helped him kill'), or that they used their power for their own advantage.

In particular, one boasted his Echo-given mastery over language he had used for financial profit, almost proudly - it definitely goes against the sense of altruism Minfilia was trying to promote.

[TeaTimeBear]

How can you honestly deny Hydaelyn having created everything, the planet is named after her.

In actuality once a primal has had enough crystals to be called into the corporeal world they no longer require crystals to sustain their existence, only to heal and replenish them should they get injured. When we meet Hydaelyn she is in a very diminished state, she has very little to no powers and requires us to go out and collect these crystals to rejuvenate her. And Menfila has stated in 1.0 that no one ever asked for the Echo, Hydaelyn in a sense did sort of forced the echo on whomever she felt fit, which is very similar to how Primals go about choosing their hosts. Much like how Ifrit told us to bathe in his flames, Hydaelyn had us bathe in her light. There was never any choice in the matter.I would think she would be weak considering all that came into fruition before our coming. A moon did fall on the planet and it still is on the process of recovering.we gather the crystals in order to banish the approaching darkness, not to feed her is how I took it.

I also don't agree that Hydaelyn is the source of all life on the planet, because that would be drawing a parallel between her and a god/diety of her realm. In which she would omnipotent, and self-sustaining and wouldn't really need us to collect crystals for her. Also every beastman tribe refers to their primal as a god, or father/mother. It doesn't really mean that they are their creators, more like guardians, and protectors much like parents would be. the tribes men do this with both free will and tempered will, but it does not mean a primal is on the same level as a god. If you deny Hydaelyn as the creator then all of the lore of eorzea means nothing

And tempering doesn't exactly mean that the host is stripped of all their freewill, it merely suggests that it converts individuals them to follow their cause. Much like how our test in life was to do everything Hydaelyn asked of us since arriving here in Eorzea. A tempered host does not need to force their will upon anyone, they follow willingly. And I've never heard of anyone using the Echo for entirely selfish reasons. play the amal'jaa tribe quest to see how much free will temper individuals have, and as mentioned in 1.0 the echo was used for ill-gotten gains.

I am having sudden memories of a bloke who denied Haku's gender as male because Haku's looks female..

[Orophin]

If they follow the creativity of FFXI she could actually have a physical manifestation beyond just being the planet or Mothercrystal.

I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were Minfilia, but there'd be a lot unexplained about how she doesn't understand how to utilize her power.

[Gaddes]

the struggling captives immediately become zealous towards the Primal, and are regarded as being like that forever.

Interesting, since those who are devoted to Hydaelyn's cause are similarly always devoted to that cause. You don't see the scions ever wavering in their beliefs and you even see them pray similarly in some cutscenes. That big ass crystal may not actually be a primal, but whether the writing team knew it or not there are a lot of potential similarities to draw between primal followers and crystal followers. Ignoring how other games like FFXI remove your sense of choice in your actions (because let's just focus on this game for this discussion shall we?) there are a lot of great arguments that could be made for parallels in the crystal's followers and the primals' followers, and your own character's silent compliance with everything.

In all honesty, there is little to no chance that hydaelyn is actually tempering people the way the primals are, mostly just because SE's approach to the story is very simple-minded and boringly straight-forward, and such a revelation would make things a lot more complicated and force people to question the actions they've been doing so far. If it was another company then perhaps that could've been a cool twist... but in this current situation I heavily doubt it.

[KyahAlmasy]

-snippidy-

As much as I would like to take everything that happened in 1.0 as canon, I simply cannot because it has been chopped up into little pieces and reorganized so many times. Like if you started in Uldah, you met the flower girl being only about 9 or 10 in age by appearance and the Miquote (Desert Flower) with Thancred, whom you save from the thrashing Goobbue. And in the aftermath you meet Minfillia on the same day who introduces the Echo to you. Now 2.0 is trying to say that Minfilia IS that flower girl you saved... and somehow between the time you saved her and you met her again on the same day she grew two large breasts and aged 10 years. It's clear that much of what happened (Besides the plot surrounding Dalamund) has been changed without much care for what was told in 1.0. Which leads me to believe that some dialogue that you could or could not have chosen to read would be taken with any more care as the main plot of the game.

We also didn't need to collect crystals for Hydaelyn in 1.0 to make her stronger, she just was behind the scenes granting us the echo when it would suit her agenda.

And also, when others were tempered it was done so while being held against their will and subjected to some horrific and frightening beast who wished nothing more than to enact revenge toward those who would defy him. Each primal is portrayed differently and thus those tempered act in a way that primal would prefer, and Hydaelyn approached us with a far more calmer demeanor and preached reason, and her will for the greater good before "Bathing" us in her light. Sort of reminds me of Bhunivelze in FF13-2 who did the very same thing, and while had good intentions went about things in a less than savory way behind the scenes. We may be bent to follow Hydaelyn's will, but given freedoms to still do things we wish. Which would explain why we went out of our way to do everything some floating crystal told us to do after forcing us to pass out.

[TeaTimeBear]

Welp -throws the plot in the incinerator and changes the planets name to "planet"-and this ladies and gents is why when writing a story you need to have your thoughts together or else misinformation becomes fact, and different interpretations are born. FF13 being notorious for this.

[EdwinLi]

---

I forgotten where but I believe SE already explained 1.0 Ul'dah storyline...

Ul'dah 1.0 story takes place in the Echo itself. The Warrior of Light has been completely unaware that all the events in Ul'dah 1.0 story is simply the echo reflecting past events in Ul'dah set before the Primals were released from their seal in Silvertear lake 10 years before the 1.0 storyline. You meet Minfillia in Ul'dah grown up because during that time the Echo was not sending you a vision of a past event.

The three city-state story in 1.0 are all set 10 years before 1.0 timeline through the Echo.

1.0 gridania story covers how Gridania began to open their gates to outsiders 10 years before 1.0 story.

1.0 Limsa Lominsa story covers how Limsa Lominsa became involved discovering the secret treasure of the Sea Serpent 10 years before 1.0 timeframe which is believed to contain something important to fight against the primals and what happened to the Key that will allow people to find that treasure.

All three stories ends with the sky covered in flames and the primals being released into Eorzea from Silvertear Lake 10 years before 1.0 timeframe.

However, so far they only concluded 1.0 Ul'dah story with 2.1 storyline. SE has yet to conclude the 1.0 Gridania and 1.0 Limsa Lominsa storyline since the question remains about what happened to the kids in 1.0 Gridania's story who served as major characters and what happened to the Key and what is the legendary treausre in 1.0 Limsa story.