No More Tanks for Garuda EX?

[Lemon8or]

But I think it would be a good move by the developers to work the EX primals like the Binding Coil and allow players who haven't cleared previous primals to be taken into future EX primals by someone who has cleared it. That way we can at least get into practice parties for Levi EX or King Moogle EX and aren't left behind when all the experienced players move on to the next content.

Thing is.... the earlier EX fights are much simpler than the latter EX fights. Levi EX and Moogle EX requires more awareness in general than Garuda EX (where the only thing you watch is not to blow up Spiny and run out of Featherlance) or even Titan EX (memorize the pattern). It's just like you have to go through story dungeons to get to the next one or you'd be at level 50 clueless like the FATE first time levelers.
Grats on your win. I have been busy trying to get my FC members through Titan EX so couldn't be as available as I hoped.
You still need to beat turn 5 now to move on to Second Coil of Bahamut.

[lxSch]

You are confirming what I said: DF of PF are not the best place, because people quit too early and have no patience, they think the situation won't get better with practice (and it might be like that in some cases.) But they are the only place for many people. (Including myself.)

Edit: I'll add more things now.
Party Finder should be better than DF because: You can state if it is a practice group, a farm group, a group intended to win but with patience to work, etc.

Garuda is different, but in Titan where the problem for a player may just be the difficulty to dodge (for connection quality or other reason), in a PF group decided to win, if you see, after several tries (not 1 or 2 or 3), that a player always dies before the heart, the best would be substitute that player and search for another one (it is probable he won't get better too quickly, but he may, it's just not too fair for the rest of the group if they already do well.) You can't do that in Duty Finder.

There are too few practice groups. There are people who don't have a lot of exp who join exp groups and many times win because they learn or really have enough exp (just not kill exp), or are carried. And others that create groups requiring exp and high ilvl who don't have the exp (or at least not the kill exp they ask for), but want an exp high ilvl group to have higher chances of winning.

It would be better to create practice groups than join DF just for practice.

In 2.1 i90 grind was some kind of patience test, even CT gear was once week and random.

Over the last days i joined several learning PF groups and they disband after 2-3 wipes (even at titan HM). Doing HM primals through the roulette is much better now because there will be a plenty of i90 players. But EX/Coil are not on the roulette, so it will be mostly those impatient new players doing them.
SE mixed light and medium players in 2.2, which is wrong because medium players hate to see someone being new and light players hate to fail and be yelled at. Soon medium players will enter 2.2 content and cause problems to hardcore people for their lack of experience.
SE idea is to show the game as fast as possible to everyone, but i think content should be going slower with time to learn your class while collecting the required gear.

[JonBigwood]

In 2.1 i90 grind was some kind of patience test, even CT gear was once week and random.

Now it's the ilvl 100 and 110 the one who will need a lot of time and patience to obtain.

New players have more content to do after they end the main story compared with previous players, but I don't think it is a bad idea that the ones who work hard can eventually catch up. An unsurmountable gap for people that have joined the game some months later wouldn't be good in the long run.

There is time enough to learn their job while they level up and while they catch up in end game content.

[JonBigwood]

Doing HM primals through the roulette is much better now because there will be a plenty of i90 players.

That's a good point. Roulettes are favoured by the need of myth tomes for Animus upgrade. The i90s have some higher gear by now too.

EX and Coil are the hardest content, give the best drops, and have no echo. The players who complain that everything is made too easy for the newcomers are not denied all their wishes.

[Lemon8or]

EX and Coil are the hardest content, give the best drops, and have no echo. The players who complain that everything is made too easy for the newcomers are not denied all their wishes.

New EX and new Coil don't have echo exactly because it's meant to be challenging for players. If everyone gets echo from the start, why don't they just make the fights easier?

[JonBigwood]

New EX and new Coil don't have echo exactly because it's meant to be challenging for players. If everyone gets echo from the start, why don't they just make the fights easier?

This is new, I didn't know it. Up to now Coil had no echo. Now with patch 2.21 (9th April 2014) it has 10% max, less than the ones who had least echo. Is Leviathan and Mogle EX the only ones who have no echo? They are the only one new EX trials.
And I think it's good that there is hard content that is not made easier for anybody, it seems you thought my message implied otherwise.

[givemeraptors]

Thing is.... the earlier EX fights are much simpler than the latter EX fights. Levi EX and Moogle EX requires more awareness in general than Garuda EX (where the only thing you watch is not to blow up Spiny and run out of Featherlance) or even Titan EX (memorize the pattern). It's just like you have to go through storydungeons to get to the next one or you'd be at level 50 clueless like the FATE first time levelers.
Grats on your win. I have been busy trying to get my FC members through Titan EX so couldn't be as available as I hoped.
You still need to beat turn 5 now to move on to Second Coil of Bahamut.

My problem wasn't with the difficulty of the fight, but the difficulty in forming a full party to enter the fight to begin with. Also, even if we agree that content should be skill locked, the abundance of PF parties that refuse to take inexperienced players and general community attitude towards first-timers means that good practice groups are hard to come by once everyone has left for greener (bluer in this case) pastures.

Clearing turn 5 seems legit to me, but you can still jump straight TO turn 5 if you wanted as long as someone was willing to bring you in. Perhaps being able to jump straight to Ifrit and leapfrogging over Titan? I don't know. I would just like to practice on all the primals before the good groups move on.

[JonBigwood]

Really? I feel anything but safe as a ranged DPS

You are right in this sense. But if you are far away from the mobs or boss most attacks don't reach you. Yes, when there are AoE everywhere a DPS can get hit and die or get super low health 1 shot, while the tank will keep more health, that's a big advantage. Only in some places this happens. In most, if you stay out of the way you are safe. Melee DPS have to be there near the boss or mob and are at more risk.

[Quor]

There's no hidden reason for lack of Garuda Ex tanks. Her fending ring sucks and there's no reason for career tanks to farm it when Allagan + Hero's is better and easier to obtain thanks to enrage mode.

Seconding this. The Vortex ring of Fending blows for tanks. It is, however, amazing for SCH.

[Lemon8or]

This is new, I didn't know it. Up to now Coil had no echo. Now with patch 2.21 (9th April 2014) it has 10% max, less than the ones who had least echo. Is Leviathan and Mogle EX the only ones who have no echo? They are the only one new EX trials.
And I think it's good that there is hard content that is not made easier for anybody, it seems you thought my message implied otherwise.

Yes, Leviathan EX and Moggle EX don't have Echo buff. They only slap Echo on Garuda, Titan and Ifrit to help people beat old contents.