Quote Originally Posted by Betelgeuzah View Post
You give absolutely no explanation for the bolded. A game can and should make it so there are multiple ways to advance your character, and side-content should be considered as such way. The item rewards do not equal the effort for the players with tens of millions of gil, which is how it should be- because the quests should help out lower rank players and those who can not get by with just money alone. You are not the target audience of these quests, and you shouldn't be. They will never get new players if they cater to your type. The reward most definitely equals the effort for those players.

The sidequests need to be made better however, even if it means they will come in smaller amounts. If the quests are of the same quality as quests found in other MMO's (that do give exp), players will make the comparison and be disappointed. Thus the quests need to be better than those found in other MMO's, and be made so that players do them because they're fun, not because CARROT. The game needs quality content, not quantity content.
I suppose first I should explain the bolded. In my history of rpg gaming, I have never seen a game that simply "turns the xp off" without something to replace it (i.e. fame, some sort of ability upgrade, something of that nature). Example: Blitzball did not give you xp, but it did give you things to strive for that could not be accomplished any other way. Note I'm not advocating giving an xp bonus just because you are on a quest although I know that is a popular notion implemented in many games including WOW. What I am saying is you're having a rank 10 go talk to an npc to kill 8 marmots and get a rank 10 item. That same rank 10 can go do a guildleve and while he is killing the same 8 marmots, make it to rank 11. That's on top of the gil or quite possibly a rank 10 item. FFXI did the same thing that FFXIV is doing, but it never turned off the xp. If you went back after you were high level and got crappy items/xp that was your fault. But to simply say a person must choose between character advancement and flavor text? Or to put it another way, if the actual quests of the main storyline are seen by some to be lackluster (I think they are fine, just short), then why would you add even smaller versions of that and take out any of the benefits that come with it? Much less something as fundamental as xp.

Oh and for the record. I've never had a million gil in all my years of playing ff xi or xiv. I don't follow the crowds like that.

Now to what you're actually saying:

"A game can and should make it so there are multiple ways to advance your character"

Exactly.

"and side content should be considered as such way."

Preach on!

"The item rewards do not equal the effort for the players with tens of millions of gil..."

What? I'm not talking about what you can buy. My point was that a person starting on day one will come across an available quest "let's say a rank 5 quest for a rank 5 item." Now in the time it takes for that person to complete that quest, they could have completed 2 or 3 guildleves made it to rank 6 and with the gil acquired bought said item from the market wards.

Now after reading your second paragraph I think I see what you're getting at. Yes, RPGs do have certain quests that do not actually give you anything, except they have an impact on your character (a title, a CS that shows the ramifications of a choice you made, a hidden character etc.) These things do not effect the game mechanics, but change the way you feel about your character. If the quests were of this nature that would be fine too. I'm certain lots of people would do a quest just for a personal hairstyle or "persue a relationship" with an NPC (it works in Dragon Age and Ar Tonelico right?)

So no, the reward need not be tangible. But it needs to feel like a reward and not a sacrifice. I knew lots of people who would lament when they had to farm (for gil or for mats). The only people I knew to surrender large amounts of time just for cutscenes were bored max level players. And that was for cutscenes not flavor texts.

In simplest terms:

battle guildleve = flavor text + kill X number mobs + receive xp/sp + receive currency and or item.

sidequest = flavor text + questgiver NPC +kill X mobs + receive item - xp/sp

As for the quality vs quantity. You seem to believe I am attacking Yoshi -Ps slow and steady approach. I'm all for quality over quantity. At the same time, FFXIV is a year behind where it should be (assuming that Yoshi-P's plan is completed on the 1 year anniversary of the original CE launch. You could have one quest if you could convince everyone to play it over and over again. Alas, the quests must keep coming to give the new people who don't like grinding and the r50s who are bored something to do.

So in conclusion, "CARROT" is fun. It's fun to progress your character. It's fun to make them unique. It's fun to open up new ways to play the game and it's fun to get an item only if how you got that item was fun. I will even give you it is fun to learn more about the world you are living in if it is done in an exciting way. As it stands, there is not enough difference between a guildleve and a sidequest to justify taking away the xp. And unfortunately there is not enough plot either if it only comes in the form of flavor text.