How to fix the sidequests...

[deekapowski]

Alright.

Let's be honest.

There were three types of quests in ffxi:

1. The frustrating just not worth it quests. (I'm looking at you "This smooth stone is not the right weight.") If you did the quest at all it was a learning experience and you vowed to avoid it in the future.

2. The reward might be worth it quests. Usually these were the ones for gil, or for basic items. (most popular being: Tiger fangs for gil, ones that let you spam fame, and every so often there was a basic item worth the quest)

3. The reward was mandatory quests. I don't even have to give examples of these, but I will anyway: the subjob quests, advanced job quests, rse, etc. Please note that unlike the type 2 quests the type 3 quests changed the way you played the game.

Keep in mind that from ffxi to ffxiv quests are to sidequests as missions are to quests.

So here are 5 ideas to help fix the sidequests which are not very playable in their current capacity.

1. Give back the xp/sp. The xp of killing mobs while doing random quests should be at least equivalent to the xp of a mob killed while grinding. A game should never ask a player to sacrifice xp for plot. Especially when the item rewards to not equal such sacrifice, which leads to suggestion 2.

2. Upgrade the rewards. In all realism this won't happen until after the battle system and job system readjustments, but these would be suitable items that would more than make a quest worthwhile before the type 3 quests were available:

1. A one shot anima refresh item (unique)
2. A one shot repair item (unique)
3. A one shot haste item (unique)
4. Guild Marks
5. A one shot "facilities" item (unique) (would give woodyard or equiv type use)
6. An xp/sp boost item (reusable or oneshot) (unique)
7. Anything that made the PC themself more customizable (a chance to recolor an item they have)

3. The addition of a mog house type space would create the opportunity to create furniture and such which would be a fun side pursuit.

4. The fame system has been done (although it is an idea) and so has titles.

5. A completionist log. Something that said you have completed 6 out of 1800 logs. With extras for getting so far along such as Yoshi P's armor artwork, or soundtrack access. This would have people questing just for the extras.

Anyway. I believe the type three quests are coming and as long as they have a decent storyline everything will be on track. So Yoshi-P keep cracking on the battle system so we can get our awesome quests soon.

[Rau]

anima refresh would be awesome for repeatable quests.

[Meenkieblade]

Here's some of my ideas!


Quests and side quests
-Kudos for making it easy to find that NPC and area you have to go for the goal. Sure, for some it takes a bit of fun and realism out....but face it, there's a ton of sites out there that list what to do and where to go and this keeps it in-game w/o having to surf for the answers and destinations.
-COUNTERPOINT There's not enough quests to keep players happy (I know it's still kind of in a test phase). The rewards are also kind of.....too little too late. Getting a level 10 robe would have been nice a loooong time ago, not so much now. Maybe throw in bonus EXP/SP if you do the quest at a certain level range....or add the ability to restrict your level to one where the quest would be a challenge. Right now, I'm doing quests just because I can....out of boredom for an item I'll probably NPC after earning. How about adding some Key Item rewards? Like some lucky trinket that's just in your Key Item box, not taking up space, just a little boost in some small way?

[PeppinoTuna]

I love the Anima Refresh idea as a reward.

[Betelgeuzah]

1. Give back the xp/sp. The xp of killing mobs while doing random quests should be at least equivalent to the xp of a mob killed while grinding. A game should never ask a player to sacrifice xp for plot. Especially when the item rewards to not equal such sacrifice, which leads to suggestion 2.

You give absolutely no explanation for the bolded. A game can and should make it so there are multiple ways to advance your character, and side-content should be considered as such way. The item rewards do not equal the effort for the players with tens of millions of gil, which is how it should be- because the quests should help out lower rank players and those who can not get by with just money alone. You are not the target audience of these quests, and you shouldn't be. They will never get new players if they cater to your type. The reward most definitely equals the effort for those players.

The sidequests need to be made better however, even if it means they will come in smaller amounts. If the quests are of the same quality as quests found in other MMO's (that do give exp), players will make the comparison and be disappointed. Thus the quests need to be better than those found in other MMO's, and be made so that players do them because they're fun, not because CARROT. The game needs quality content, not quantity content.

[deekapowski]

You give absolutely no explanation for the bolded. A game can and should make it so there are multiple ways to advance your character, and side-content should be considered as such way. The item rewards do not equal the effort for the players with tens of millions of gil, which is how it should be- because the quests should help out lower rank players and those who can not get by with just money alone. You are not the target audience of these quests, and you shouldn't be. They will never get new players if they cater to your type. The reward most definitely equals the effort for those players.

The sidequests need to be made better however, even if it means they will come in smaller amounts. If the quests are of the same quality as quests found in other MMO's (that do give exp), players will make the comparison and be disappointed. Thus the quests need to be better than those found in other MMO's, and be made so that players do them because they're fun, not because CARROT. The game needs quality content, not quantity content.

I suppose first I should explain the bolded. In my history of rpg gaming, I have never seen a game that simply "turns the xp off" without something to replace it (i.e. fame, some sort of ability upgrade, something of that nature). Example: Blitzball did not give you xp, but it did give you things to strive for that could not be accomplished any other way. Note I'm not advocating giving an xp bonus just because you are on a quest although I know that is a popular notion implemented in many games including WOW. What I am saying is you're having a rank 10 go talk to an npc to kill 8 marmots and get a rank 10 item. That same rank 10 can go do a guildleve and while he is killing the same 8 marmots, make it to rank 11. That's on top of the gil or quite possibly a rank 10 item. FFXI did the same thing that FFXIV is doing, but it never turned off the xp. If you went back after you were high level and got crappy items/xp that was your fault. But to simply say a person must choose between character advancement and flavor text? Or to put it another way, if the actual quests of the main storyline are seen by some to be lackluster (I think they are fine, just short), then why would you add even smaller versions of that and take out any of the benefits that come with it? Much less something as fundamental as xp.

Oh and for the record. I've never had a million gil in all my years of playing ff xi or xiv. I don't follow the crowds like that.

Now to what you're actually saying:

"A game can and should make it so there are multiple ways to advance your character"

Exactly.

"and side content should be considered as such way."

Preach on!

"The item rewards do not equal the effort for the players with tens of millions of gil..."

What? I'm not talking about what you can buy. My point was that a person starting on day one will come across an available quest "let's say a rank 5 quest for a rank 5 item." Now in the time it takes for that person to complete that quest, they could have completed 2 or 3 guildleves made it to rank 6 and with the gil acquired bought said item from the market wards.

Now after reading your second paragraph I think I see what you're getting at. Yes, RPGs do have certain quests that do not actually give you anything, except they have an impact on your character (a title, a CS that shows the ramifications of a choice you made, a hidden character etc.) These things do not effect the game mechanics, but change the way you feel about your character. If the quests were of this nature that would be fine too. I'm certain lots of people would do a quest just for a personal hairstyle or "persue a relationship" with an NPC (it works in Dragon Age and Ar Tonelico right?)

So no, the reward need not be tangible. But it needs to feel like a reward and not a sacrifice. I knew lots of people who would lament when they had to farm (for gil or for mats). The only people I knew to surrender large amounts of time just for cutscenes were bored max level players. And that was for cutscenes not flavor texts.

In simplest terms:

battle guildleve = flavor text + kill X number mobs + receive xp/sp + receive currency and or item.

sidequest = flavor text + questgiver NPC +kill X mobs + receive item - xp/sp

As for the quality vs quantity. You seem to believe I am attacking Yoshi -Ps slow and steady approach. I'm all for quality over quantity. At the same time, FFXIV is a year behind where it should be (assuming that Yoshi-P's plan is completed on the 1 year anniversary of the original CE launch. You could have one quest if you could convince everyone to play it over and over again. Alas, the quests must keep coming to give the new people who don't like grinding and the r50s who are bored something to do.

So in conclusion, "CARROT" is fun. It's fun to progress your character. It's fun to make them unique. It's fun to open up new ways to play the game and it's fun to get an item only if how you got that item was fun. I will even give you it is fun to learn more about the world you are living in if it is done in an exciting way. As it stands, there is not enough difference between a guildleve and a sidequest to justify taking away the xp. And unfortunately there is not enough plot either if it only comes in the form of flavor text.

[JakeRoon]

Betelgeuzah: Your point is moot.

Quests that don't give exp/sp are pointless, you can simply do Leves to get the money to buy the gear they offer AND get SP/EXP. So can new players. Yet another bad decision by SE.

[Eruantien]

Betelgeuzah: Your point is moot.

Quests that don't give exp/sp are pointless, you can simply do Leves to get the money to buy the gear they offer AND get SP/EXP. So can new players. Yet another bad decision by SE.

Not sure how you can say quests are pointless without exp/sp, I do quests for the story generally, so the point isnt moot at all

[JakeRoon]

Not sure how you can say quests are pointless without exp/sp, I do quests for the story generally, so the point isnt moot at all

His point was moot, His point suggested that the quest were there to obtain gear that new players could not afford.

Your point is you like the story on the quests, that's a separate point. One I can appreciate. However; modern games have to offer more than a cute story for the players most players to find quests "doable". If the payout per time invested is seen to be "not worth it" most modern gamers will simply find more efficient uses of their limited play time.

I'm not just making this crap up. I've played dozens of mmo's over the years and know the trends. Anyone that wants to have a discussion about these types of things is always free to call me on skype or whatnot.....perhaps we can put our heads together and come up with some good ideas.

Oh if only the forums had private mail already......

[Seif]

His point was moot, His point suggested that the quest were there to obtain gear that new players could not afford.

Your point is you like the story on the quests, that's a separate point. One I can appreciate. However; modern games have to offer more than a cute story for the players most players to find quests "doable". If the payout per time invested is seen to be "not worth it" most modern gamers will simply find more efficient uses of their limited play time.

I'm not just making this crap up. I've played dozens of mmo's over the years and know the trends. Anyone that wants to have a discussion about these types of things is always free to call me on skype or whatnot.....perhaps we can put our heads together and come up with some good ideas.

Oh if only the forums had private mail already......

Good luck with that putting your own opinion on a pedestal-thing you've got going on there.

Most people play Final Fantasy games for the story. The only thing with XIV is that there is no interesting story to speak of. No-one of the NPCs stand out because they're not involved in well scripted cutscenes. A game without interesting world or characters gives the player zero reasons to fight for.