Counter Skill on mobs miss too please! not only on evade

[Bigglesworth]

agree with this thread, but perhaps it will be a job ability as opposed to a class wide ability. perhaps for monk?

[Meleena]

Nah, that will never happen.
I can throw a punch while I am at 100 feet away and miss you, can you counter attack me then? No.
In order to counter, you have to "Evade".
You have to "make" them miss while youre prepared to counter, you cant expect from someone to counter every "miss".
Many fighters miss on purpose one hit, in order to create a false sense of vulnerability and punish the careless who think that they have the upperhand.

I know this is a game, but I love martial arts, thats why I always chose to play as the H2H melee in MMOs :P

[Lienn]

Nah, that will never happen.
I can throw a punch while I am at 100 feet away and miss you, can you counter attack me then? No.
In order to counter, you have to "Evade".
You have to "make" them miss while youre prepared to counter, you cant expect from someone to counter every "miss".
Many fighters miss on purpose one hit, in order to create a false sense of vulnerability and punish the careless who think that they have the upperhand.

I know this is a game, but I love martial arts, thats why I always chose to play as the H2H melee in MMOs :P

...this! ^^

[Akuun]

Lets assume, the monster is trying to kill you and not score a point in a tourney with a fake out to lure you in.
If you evade or the mob misses, the mob would be off balance and therefore open to a counter attack.

So yes, I'm also for this, because, the higher your evasion, not only the higher the chance of evade, but the higher the chance of being missed altogether.

[Meleena]

Lets assume, the monster is trying to kill you and not score a point in a tourney with a fake out to lure you in.
If you evade or the mob misses, the mob would be off balance and therefore open to a counter attack.

Lets assume that it's a monster and it's fast, so after it misses it gets in ready position before you can do anything since you're still stunned from the force of the previous missed blow and you were not ready to counter attack, then it follows with another blow and he hits you.
See where I am going?

Let's also asume that the monster has more than one way to attack, (like 3 consecutive strikes), the first one misses and the rest two hit, can you still say that you can counter the first blow?

[Akuun]

Lets assume that it's a monster and it's fast, so after it misses it gets in ready position before you can do anything since you're still stunned from the force of the previous missed blow and you were not ready to counter attack, then it follows with another blow and he hits you.
See where I am going?

I'll assume the part I underlined was just poorly worded, since it doesn't make sense otherwise.

As for where your going, you seem to have both feet firmly planted in the real world where monster don't exist.
The main complaint here is that SE has basically screwed PGL it's no long a decent DD, and it's tanking is even worse.
For us to rely solely on evades to use 3 of our attacks is a bit silly. And our other attacks with the exception of victimize and concussive blow feel pretty mediocre atm.

Let's also asume that the monster has more than one way to attack, (like 3 consecutive strikes), the first one misses and the rest two hit, can you still say that you can counter the first blow?

Okay, lets assume that, how would it vary from if we evaded the first blow?
I know it can be difficult at times to see things from other perspectives, but when you start flipping things, usually the obvious shows through.

As far as this whole mess goes, I'd rather they simply do away with this whole evasion/counter system, or bring in something like the counter trait from MNK in FFXI. While they may very well be saving for the MNK job in FFXIV. (we won't know that for few more months)

Maybe it's just me feeling this way, but it feels like PGL and THM got the super short end of the stick in 1.18.

[Physic]

I'll assume the part I underlined was just poorly worded, since it doesn't make sense otherwise.

As for where your going, you seem to have both feet firmly planted in the real world where monster don't exist.
The main complaint here is that SE has basically screwed PGL it's no long a decent DD, and it's tanking is even worse.
For us to rely solely on evades to use 3 of our attacks is a bit silly. And our other attacks with the exception of victimize and concussive blow feel pretty mediocre atm.



Okay, lets assume that, how would it vary from if we evaded the first blow?
I know it can be difficult at times to see things from other perspectives, but when you start flipping things, usually the obvious shows through.

As far as this whole mess goes, I'd rather they simply do away with this whole evasion/counter system, or bring in something like the counter trait from MNK in FFXI. While they may very well be saving for the MNK job in FFXIV. (we won't know that for few more months)

Maybe it's just me feeling this way, but it feels like PGL and THM got the super short end of the stick in 1.18.

mrd got hit pretty bad too. 4.2 seconds a swing in a tp and cool down based system has got to hurt.

[Meleena]

I'll assume the part I underlined was just poorly worded, since it doesn't make sense otherwise.

Sure it makes sence, youre not stunned only if you're hit, you can be stunned by the surprize of a powerfull missed blow too. After all it's still a miss if a blow goes 1mm beside your face.
You think: What will happen if that thing hit me?
And your response is dalayed just by that.

As for where your going, you seem to have both feet firmly planted in the real world where monster don't exist.
The main complaint here is that SE has basically screwed PGL it's no long a decent DD, and it's tanking is even worse.
For us to rely solely on evades to use 3 of our attacks is a bit silly. And our other attacks with the exception of victimize and concussive blow feel pretty mediocre atm.

I don't agree, we would not become stronger if we could use counters on miss, it would just be 2 attacks in place of 2 other attacks.
I use Marauder's Skullsander 2, Lancer's Heavy Trammel, Aura Pulse, Victimize 2 and these attacks are more than enough for me to deal damage.
I make a difference with the counters anyway, since they are not stronger attacks than the one's I mentioned.
And I am saying that because it's still quite easy to use counters with evades.
Counters on miss arent that big of a power up...

Okay, lets assume that, how would it vary from if we evaded the first blow?
I know it can be difficult at times to see things from other perspectives, but when you start flipping things, usually the obvious shows through.

Theres a variation, If you evade the first and counter it then the opponent attack stops there.
You can't counter missed attacks so the opponent follows with the next hits too.

It's logical really, none really "counters" missed attacks.
Its not a counter if you hit someone if they missed, its called punish and it's rare.
You can't be ready to punish every missed attack that comes to you.
It's just wishfull thinking if someone would believe that he can punish every wiff.

As far as this whole mess goes, I'd rather they simply do away with this whole evasion/counter system, or bring in something like the counter trait from MNK in FFXI. While they may very well be saving for the MNK job in FFXIV. (we won't know that for few more months)

Maybe it's just me feeling this way, but it feels like PGL and THM got the super short end of the stick in 1.18.

I love the evade-counter system, I think it's awesome and i want it to stay.


EDIT:
For lack of a better example, plz look at 1:05 of this video to see what I mean with: "stunned from a missed blow"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HN49t...eature=related

[hotah]

I like that episode, but Gaara is just stunned cause Lee's abilities increased so dramatically.

[Alaltus]

I suppose next you'll want the counter weaponskills to have feint's always hits effect too? pugilists can back to back both of their counter weaponskills off of a single evade. They really dont need to be able to counter on misses as well just more oppurtunities to evade.