DIP, DUCK, DIVE, DODGE!

[Winterclaw]

I think the way it is right now, we are on a test server and this forum is our feedback lol.

Technically yes, realistically no. I'm talking about a whole different server with its own ruleset specifically for the purpose of having the players test new things before it is published to the rest of the game. I know EVE has a separate server for testing new things. GW has a test crewe (yes they misspelled it). There are a few others as well.

[Dyne]

Let me make another scenario. You are a bystander. A tire just fell off a fast moving truck and it is now flying towards you at 80 mph, you only have less than second to make a decision, what do you do?
A) Stand there and take it because you think it will only cost you 1000 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
B) Block it with your hands because you think it will only cost you 500 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
C) Move out of the way by either sidestepping or jumping to the side (Action RPG style)
D) Do the matrix move

If you answered D, I will stab you in the jaw.

[Dreadnought]

I find the battle system kinda outdated and would look even more obviously outdated once people get a taste of Tera and maybe Phantasy Star Online 2. Auto attack was so 10 years ago with ffxi, and it's great, and we might get jump, but that's a much older basic move. The current battle system along with ffxi's battle sytem, people stood around in one place until the mob was dead. The most mobile person would be the puller, or the thief that have to setup sneak/trick attack. FFXI had its bits that were exciting such as kiting the angels in divine might, or running away from Kirin. It truly felt like you were in a real battle with real monsters, this was a time before zerging was invented btw.

Point is, you really shouldn't stand still against mobs that can crush you like an ant. Take for example the Great Buffalo NM, tanks just stand in front of it, healers take a few steps back because they know they can get one shotted, damage dealers just attack it without disregard for skills. Wouldn't it be great if the Great Buffalo chased everyone across the entire map, even in the camps, and a tank can get one shotted easily if they don't dodge at the exact time it does a weaponskill or a spell?

We need a sense of danger in this game, stop zerging all battles, stop being so stationary, and showcase some real skills that require split second timing. Yoshida said it himself in a famitsu interview translated by Reinhart, something like the best feeling is when you finish a battle and you do not get hit. I am proposing the addition of a dodge button to dodge left or right, and yes, you can work this around even with the controller, there are some functions that I could careless to be mapped on the controller, like emotes, map, camera mode, screenshot. What if, you were a damage dealer, and the Great Buffalo does the body slam and if you do not dodge on time, you are dead, just splat dead. Or, if you're really good, even as a tank, you can dodge almost everything and never get hit. That will make battles more difficult, more chaotic, and much more memorable and epic. Attacks that require certain conditions such as blindside can still be done, but this time with a lot more skill, communication, timing, and strategy. For example, during Kirin battle, a tank will have to stop from kiting for 2-3 seconds so damage dealers can setup weapon skillchains and magic bursts, otherwise it may never die if the party never perfects the strategy.

Seriously, watch a video of Tera with the player running in circles around the mob, trying to dodge, or the tanks actually line up spartan style to create a wall to protect the mages that stand behind them, and you will see how pale and boring the current battle system is, even with the addition of auto attack. Watch the upcoming trailer of phantasy star online 2 with being able to fight in midair. I'd say DC Universe online, but meh. If you think the game is in trouble now, it will be even more in trouble when the true next generation MMORPG's come out, even when it is considered "fixed".

im pretty sure the instant death for tanks just for not dodging once and "NMs" chasing your group literally all over the map are extremes that pretty much anyone would dissagree with.
however
a dynamic battle system is pretty much the norm these days and will only become more-so by each game release. would i want a Final Fantasy that looked the part but played like (similar, not identical) to Tera? HELLLLL YESSSS! will i ever have that? i dont think so to be honest, for some reason SE seems to like the slower pased action and christian family disney friendly storylines.
i was not surprised when SE teamed up with disney, i just wish they had teamed up with Tim Burton instead /cry

[Dyne]

im pretty sure the instant death for tanks just for not dodging once and "NMs" chasing your group literally all over the map are extremes that pretty much anyone would dissagree with.
however
a dynamic battle system is pretty much the norm these days and will only become more-so by each game release. would i want a Final Fantasy that looked the part but played like (similar, not identical) to Tera? HELLLLL YESSSS! will i ever have that? i dont think so to be honest, for some reason SE seems to like the slower pased action and christian family disney friendly storylines.
i was not surprised when SE teamed up with disney, i just wish they had teamed up with Tim Burton instead /cry

That's why you have backup tanks. Well, maybe not instant kill a tank at this level, but maybe during endgame time. Rank 50 is far from endgame.

[Verecund]

I sincerely doubt that they intended for people to be killing mobs almost 50 levels higher than their rank XD

...though it is also strange that such mobs would be there in the first place without a rhyme or reason... hmmm.....

[Petori]

Let me make another scenario. You are a bystander. A tire just fell off a fast moving truck and it is now flying towards you at 80 mph, you only have less than second to make a decision, what do you do?
A) Stand there and take it because you think it will only cost you 1000 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
B) Block it with your hands because you think it will only cost you 500 hit points (Strategic turnbased RPG style)
C) Move out of the way by either sidestepping or jumping to the side (Action RPG style)
D) Do the matrix move

If you answered D, I will stab you in the jaw.

Disconnect (FFXIV style)

[Murugan]

Yes you can "dodge" right now, but do you notice it or you just see it in the chat log every once in awhile? You can also run away, when the mob is about to body slam on you or about to shoot you with lightning, but what if you can do it in a more elegant, better looking, faster way?

You can mention all those other games with jump and dodge all you want and how they failed, but you need to understand that those games only have the action rpg elements to it and not the "final fantasy touch". You swing a sword and thats it. You cast a spell and thats it. You use an ability and thats it. Nothing happens before, after, or in between. FFXI had the skillchain and magic bursts. FFXIV has the battle regimen system. I am just asking to combine everything + action rpg elements. It is not that complicated. It is not Traditional vs Action RPG. I am asking why it can't be both and then some.

Before you go over your head, allow me to show exactly what I want: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSEbR...eature=related
That is Fantasy Earth Zero, a square enix made mmorpg that was short lived, made around 2005-2006, a 50 vs 50 pvp with very little pve elements. The controls are exactly how it is in FFXIV, Except you can jump and dodge. It's got the action bar, just like ffxiv, but in the top right with only 10 actions. It uses both the keyboard+mouse and the controller. I do not see how they can't implement this concept here. It's not a super fancy dodge, just a simple hop to the left or right, and it doesn't guarantee that you are unscathed after dodging.

Actually I was referring to the fact that you can "manually" dodge out of the way of attacks. Mostly frontal attacks once the mob begins their animation, such as with puks and many other mobs. Not evade as in the skill. However the more the game focuses on that kind of gameplay in my opinion the simpler and less strategic combat becomes and combat especially at the high end becomes repetitive and shallow.

I played FFXI at launch and I still remember the people in that game doing the whole "manual" dodge dance around mobs. It was a funny sight, but yeah I don't want to be doing that dance on high end encounters all the time because just like in XI frankly it is stupid. You can find videos of Tera with people do this exact same "manual" dodge dance people who didn't know any better in XI were doing, because that is what you get with "action" combat. I'd rather have it built into the mechanics like in traditional MMO's so that I can actually focus on and do more during combat. I prefer the complexity "traditional" MMO mechanics can offer over the "flashiness" of simply rolling in the dirt every 5 seconds, and I think they should build on that rather than actually regressing back to hack and slash mechanics.

[Dyne]

Actually I was referring to the fact that you can "manually" dodge out of the way of attacks. Mostly frontal attacks once the mob begins their animation, such as with puks and many other mobs. Not evade as in the skill. However the more the game focuses on that kind of gameplay in my opinion the simpler and less strategic combat becomes and combat especially at the high end becomes repetitive and shallow.

I played FFXI at launch and I still remember the people in that game doing the whole "manual" dodge dance around mobs. It was a funny sight, but yeah I don't want to be doing that dance on high end encounters all the time because just like in XI frankly it is stupid. You can find videos of Tera with people do this exact same "manual" dodge dance people who didn't know any better in XI were doing, because that is what you get with "action" combat. I'd rather have it built into the mechanics like in traditional MMO's so that I can actually focus on and do more during combat. I prefer the complexity "traditional" MMO mechanics can offer over the "flashiness" of simply rolling in the dirt every 5 seconds, and I think they should build on that rather than actually regressing back to hack and slash mechanics.

What are you talking about? FFXI did not have a dodge button. You can run away, and sometimes you don't get hit if you're far enough, but I wouldn't call that a manual dodge dance. Adding dodge buttons doesn't mean the game will go back to hack and slash mechanics, it can still retain all the auto attack, strategic maneuvering, use any and all your skills you have now, even stuff that enhances evasion. Except now, you can dodge left or right if you want to, or you can just walk if you are absolutely against it. Not only will it add more strategy to the game, it would add more difficulty, and force people to pay attention more. How many people in real life do you know got hit by a train and lost 2000 hit points? None, they were all splattered to pieces because it is not realistic to stand in front of a moving train and just lose hit points and survive.

[Dyne]

Disconnect (FFXIV style)

Wrong answer, you just got decapitated by the tire because you cannot disconnect in real life, unless it involves suicide. So you're dead either way.

[Serio]

My main is PUG and i can tell ya, i dodge all the time. I dodge like a boxer even. I see the OPs point, and yeah that would be pretty cool, but this game is was probably intended to stay true to the Final Fantasy RPG style. Basically, if i wanted to dodge, duck, dip, dive, and dodge, i'd play a fighting game, not an RPG. Remember, this game is an RPG at its base.