Excellent, parsers are now bannable

[Lillia]

Meh, I don't see why they're so controversial here. Tanks are measured by how well they generate enmity / take damage, healers are measured by how well they keep people alive, so why shouldn't DPS be measured in some way? I understand that some people will use them to treat people negatively, but imo that's not reason enough to stop the people who want to use them constructively.

I wonder if SE is also worried about class balance issues becoming a persistent new problem should any one class dominate damage meters over the others. Seems like it could be another thing for the playerbase to stir an uproar over should it happen.

We have an enmity bar for that.... If dps is low then it will be noticeable in a dps race and then the players can suggest changes non-aggressively with their team and find a way around it. :x

[Sacred-Oblivion]

We have an enmity bar for that.... If dps is low then it will be noticeable in a dps race and then the players can suggest changes non-aggressively with their team and find a way around it. :x

I'm coming from WoW so I'm not sure how different it is here, but many of the dps classes in WoW had skills that altered their threat output and so tps and dps weren't always a 1:1 correlation. If these types of mechanics are present in the classes here then I wouldn't consider the enmity bar a reliable indicator of dps (e.g., if a someone doesn't use their enmity lowering skills then it might give the impression that they are out-dpsing someone who is using them). But yeah, since it's all we have I suppose it can be used as a general guide especially if you know the people you're playing with.

I'm not saying that a parser should be used as a competition for top-dps, but as a performance measurement tool that signals if improvements could be made. Similar to how tanks and healers are measured for their roles as stated above.

[Lemon8or]

We have an enmity bar for that.... If dps is low then it will be noticeable in a dps race and then the players can suggest changes non-aggressively with their team and find a way around it. :x

Enmity bar doesn't correctly show how much damage you did. Every DPS but monk has a skill to drop their enmity (Elusive Jump or Quelling Strikes). The timing of these skills will obviously affect how much enmity they gain. Sure you can measure dps by seeing how fast the encounter goes but there are twice as many dps as there are tanks or healers so their performance are not as easily estimated.

no need for it, you can check your rotations outside of dungeons then use them in dungeons. in the end parsers are not needed.

Problem with that is real fights are no where close to perfect conditions like dummy. You'll understand more if you play melee dps at end-game.

[Musashidon]

Problem with that is real fights are no where close to perfect conditions like dummy. You'll understand more if you play melee dps at end-game.

and so this gives you the right to openly break the rules? nope. you don't need them it's called improvising, if you see you will never get a chance to keep certain buffs up (which is why grease lightning got a duration boost) work around it parsers just make it easier, remember you don't need them you just want them and personally i have nothing against parsers but if they say they are illegal you can't use them and these excuses you guys make are funny you can clearly see what you can and can't do during a fight use that knowledge.

snip

using them is bannable if you say hey i have a parsers i can report you and get you suspended. its a hush hush fight club thing yoshi p has said this already. if you use a parser and never say anything about it you won't get in trouble but the moment you say i have parser it's reportable even if you didn't question someones dps.

[LexSunfire]

using them is bannable if you say hey i have a parsers i can report you and get you suspended. its a hush hush fight club thing yoshi p has said this already. if you use a parser and never say anything about it you won't get in trouble but the moment you say i have parser it's reportable even if you didn't question someones dps.

that's what i'm saying. if using a parser is bannable offense than Yoshi p would have said using a parser, even when no one knows that you're using a parser, will get you banned. instead he said be hush hush about it. obviously if you're going around flaunting it then you deserve whatever consequences come your way. if you can't be responsible then you deserve what you get.

[Niwashi]

Sure you can measure dps by seeing how fast the encounter goes but there are twice as many dps as there are tanks or healers so their performance are not as easily estimated.

But that is the part of their performance that matters to the game. If the mobs are dropping, the DPS are doing their jobs. If party members are not dropping, then the tank and healer are doing their jobs. Effectiveness is seen in the game itself, not by some number a parser could spit out. Parsers are just a distraction from the more important and useful measures of players' effectiveness.

if using a parser is bannable offense than Yoshi p would have said using a parser, even when no one knows that you're using a parser, will get you banned.

There's a difference between breaking the rules and getting caught breaking the rules. Using a parser is against the rules regardless of whether you say anything about it or not, but SE has no way of punishing someone for a violation unless they know about it. The only way they'll know that you're breaking this particular rule is if you tell people that you are, so that's the only time the rule becomes enforceable.

[Sacred-Oblivion]

But that is the part of their performance that matters to the game. If the mobs are dropping, the DPS are doing their jobs. If party members are not dropping, then the tank and healer are doing their jobs. Effectiveness is seen in the game itself, not by some number a parser could spit out. Parsers are just a distraction from the more important and useful measures of players' effectiveness.

If the tank fails, then they know right away that he/she needs to change their strategy.
If the healer fails, then they know right away that he/she needs to change their strategy.
If the dps fails, they are usually blamed collectively without really knowing individually if they were doing something wrong.

Granted in most cases you can have one or two dps slacking and still conquer a fight. But this can become a real handicap in the more challenging encounters and so if an inefficiency exists it's better to correct it early on than waiting for a wipe on something harder. If an in-game parser could be designed in a way that didn't encourage competition or harassment I would be all for it. From my experience in other MMOs these tools have been very useful in increasing performance.

[Lillia]

Enmity bar doesn't correctly show how much damage you did. Every DPS but monk has a skill to drop their enmity (Elusive Jump or Quelling Strikes). The timing of these skills will obviously affect how much enmity they gain. Sure you can measure dps by seeing how fast the encounter goes but there are twice as many dps as there are tanks or healers so their performance are not as easily estimated.

Ah, I didn't know drg also had a skill that slowed down enmity gain. Also I think most fights show where it's coming from.. take T4's soldiers and knights for example, if your melee is really slow on knights while your mages are burning through their soldiers like nothing... well... you can almost spot the problem right there.

I'm not gonna say that there aren't times where one add is killed right when bugs pop with dread and the dread still goes down fine but when the bugs spawn the add should definitely be close to dead if not dead already, in this situation theres normally buffs that can help killing the dread too so it goes by fine with the right dps.

But why would you need a parser to tell you that you're gonna die from slow melee or magical dmg? you should be able to plainly see that much. In those situations it's just really plain to see.

(T1 can be done even with some in DL, I won't go into details about that turn considering when knowing what to do it's normally done smoothly and T2 is just enraged now. T5 well... I don't think people with serious dmg issues would have the easiest time in T4 so... I won't mention T5 due to that and... tbh Idk much about T5 to talk on it.)

Putting coil aside, Dungeons.... most are a cake walk, (they just take learning) so you shouldn't need to watch someone else's dmg to see if they can get through those.

Lastly EX's, Yeah a parser may be explained as helpful in those but sometimes the person messing up dies first or is noticed by someone else... so it doesn't matter anyways, most seeing "baddies" (as some call people) are catch them and insta kick them whether they were just going to learn or not.

Least thats what I've seen done in some pfs on our server anyways, so a parser would probably just be used to harrass in that situation more than anything. (If just dmg is the issue and no one is dying then normally asking for people to bum it up or making suggestions does help least in runs I've had.)

Again just my view, I am not saying I am 100% right or anything. I play a certain way and I'd not use a parser myself. I don't expect my views or feelings to change if someone can or will use one themselves nor if they find them useful.

[Failia]

Honestly, you can more or less tell if a DPS is doing their job or not simply by watching them. If you have a monk that is flying around a mob, they're likely doing their darnest to get as much DPS out as they can. If you have a black mage just standing there using the same skill over and over..likely not so much.