Tank's hate generation "reduced"?

[Legionius]

After running a few more dungeons, I've only had threat issues with a scaled down bard. Thinking back, my original issue was also with a few scaled down bards.

Opening with Toma -> Butcher's Block combo x2 and as I finish the second or right before it, there's a bard getting his nose chewed on.

I could just be running into Bards that have no concept of throttling against a leveling tank or something could be off else where. They did seem to hesitate on the pull but, who knows after that.

[Dotsusama]

After running a few more dungeons, I've only had threat issues with a scaled down bard. Thinking back, my original issue was also with a few scaled down bards.

[[...]]

I could just be running into Bards that have no concept of throttling against a leveling tank or something could be off else where. They did seem to hesitate on the pull but, who knows after that.

As someone who mains WAR and has been leveling BRD, I think this has to do with the ridiculous burst potential of bards compared to tanks in the level range. I've honestly started waiting for the tank to get a massive threat lead before using any direct damage on the pull. If they get some AoE threat going, I'll put up my two dots on everything in the pull first, then pop a cooldown and wail on the first target (which is usually half dead by this point). Never pulled threat early this way!

[SwordCoheir]

As someone who mains WAR and has been leveling BRD,

It mostly has to do with BRD's being ranged attackers and they don't have to build up most of their Damage abilities more than anything. Even targeting will trigger Auto-attack, they get 4 damage boost abilities, can indefinitely have +10% Crit Rate, can throw up 3 DoT's, and crits on Venom/Wind can reset Bloodletters non-GCD cooldown, and all can go on before the tank can even reach the target (which is partially why I prefer Flash to pull, because I'll be in range before DPS can do anything). Considering Tanks have to build up their Hate at the start, a BRD's potential burst damage can really screw things up if they're not paying attention, usually you won't have issues like this with MNK or DRG because they need to build up some of their damage abilities as well as be in close proximity of their target.

[Ooshima]

As someone who mains WAR and has been leveling BRD, I think this has to do with the ridiculous burst potential of bards compared to tanks in the level range. I've honestly started waiting for the tank to get a massive threat lead before using any direct damage on the pull. If they get some AoE threat going, I'll put up my two dots on everything in the pull first, then pop a cooldown and wail on the first target (which is usually half dead by this point). Never pulled threat early this way!

Probably. Was running with my raid leader who was a PLD in Cutter's Cry for Trials of the Brave, I would pull mobs even if it's just spreading DoTs lol. Told him I prolly can't go ape shit if he doesn't have his Circle of Scorn and stuff, but he asked me to go ahead he'll adjust. I saw him keep rotating RoH combos on the mobs instead of the usual flash flash flash.

On lvl 50 fights I don't really pull aggro from my raid tanks except when I went a bit overboard lol.

BRD prolly just communication issues. When I play as tank in DF/pug I usually assume normal pace so I just flashed and hardly rotate RoH on mobs and usually there isn't an issue, but it will become an issue if your BRD is damn on the ball lol.

[StarHate]

The only time I have started to see enmity issues are when groups hit max echo buff in trials. Healers and DPS scale a hell of a lot better than our enmity. Those Medica II spams at 25/50% increase.... makes me feel like we are back in 2.0

[tenxkun]

I have experienced this earlier today actually,my starting Shield Lob>FB>SB>ROH rotation doesn't pull as much anymore I have been spamming Flash trying to keep the mobs in line now,something that didn't happen before the patch.I had to constantly run and hope to pull enemies from Archer and BLM who had somehow pulled way more hate that I did in my starting rotation?...I was trying to think of what was the cause of this.My skills not being the reason as I have all the MRD buffs and cross-class skills I need.

[Ultimatecalibur]

I think the problem is caused by the increased hp of the monsters in the new dungeons causing fights to last longer.

The 495 enmity generated by a flash lasts the same amount of time in a fight, but lasts a lesser percentage of the fight in a longer fight.

[Moonwolfthegrey]

I lost Chirada as an i86 war OT in extreme mode to a blm who was decently geared but not spectacular. He used flare just as i was pulling to position her for tornado phase. I had opened with tomohawk. Berserk steel cyclone before he popped flare. This did not happen before for me
Of note this was after getting a few echo buffs.
I'm guessing its a one of thing as I havnt noticed any hate issues otherwise

[Inosaska]

People are jumping the gun and not allowing tanks to build hate. First let the tank build hate then start attacking. I bet something was changed but not noted in the patch notes and its the reason people are having issues getting hate.

[Ehayte]

I lost Chirada as an i86 war OT in extreme mode to a blm who was decently geared but not spectacular. He used flare just as i was pulling to position her for tornado phase. I had opened with tomohawk. Berserk steel cyclone before he popped flare. This did not happen before for me
Of note this was after getting a few echo buffs.
I'm guessing its a one of thing as I havnt noticed any hate issues otherwise

Stupid BLM - also, I would recommend trying to queue up a Butcher's Block for an immediate huge enmity hit, then tomahawking until she's back with you.

People are jumping the gun and not allowing tanks to build hate. First let the tank build hate then start attacking.

^^ DPS that used to be undergeared could pre-cast a Thunder III or start a BRD rotation just as the Tank was arriving at a mob. Now they your average "uneducated PUG" (I tried to make that the least derisive I could, but I failed) will be i90 almost certainly, with more power behind their attacks than they know how to manage. Meanwhile, none of the "pro tanks" have had time to grind out full Animus, or more than maybe 1 or 2 pieces of i100/i110 armor. Making the disparity go from i84-i90 to i90-i92, putting the untrained DPS much closer to the tank.

What I can't explain very well is what I have been noticing in things like T5 and Titan X. I am seeing some inconsistency that I never have before in terms of enmity management. An i91 WAR was pulling hate from an i88 PLD out of Defiance, while claiming NOT to be using enmity generation cool downs. Did that PLD suck? Maybe, but Shield Oath + RoH combo should be untouchable by any one within 6 or 7 iLVLs not in a tanking stance.

In T5 I play off-tank, and my i89 PLD was either woefully behind the dps in Sword Oath (Stoneskinning MT before each Death Sentence), or I was pulling hate in Shield Oath before the first Nuerolink was being laid down. Granted as the person generally responsible for raid strategy I wasn't exactly monitoring my hate with a microscope as I called out mechanics and gave tips and tweaks to FC mates, I never had that issue one time in T5 before 2.2 - Sword Oath RoH spam + CoS/SW on CD while SSing the MT before DS's was always put me at about 75% of the hate bar, which was about 20-30% ahead of our DRG, the next highest.

Couple of anomalies? Probably/perhaps. I am noticing I have to pay much more acute attention to my hate as an off-tank than I used to to make sure I'm not turning cleaving mobs on my group mates.