Tanking baby

[Zourin]

If you have to wipe 5 times to learn content then all you're doing is allowing the echo buff to scale down the difficulty to your level. A good tank should always know what's coming and how to handle it.

Nobody comes out of mom's womb already potty trained. Reality is, it takes several runs for the muscle memory for any dungeon to set in. As an experienced tank, I also know that if I'm going to be running with YOU for the first time, that I'm going to pace myself on the first few pulls until I've had a chance to adjust to how you play. It's not about echo, it's about those first few derpy runs 'till you physically get used to the anticipations, positioning, dodges, and when to use cooldowns or when you can get by without.

Of course, there are always slews of bad tanks that spent their first 50 levels FATE running where they weren't responsible for pulling their own weight and don't know how to leverage their class properly. They poison the pot when they start queuing for top end dungeons with some bizarre sense of entitlement ('group won't work without me, so you're stuck with me, and I can leave anytime') without ever evaluating their own performance.

Both 'first time in a dungeon' groups will derp their way through the dungeon on the first couple passes. I've derped my way through the ADS fight on turn 1, not because "I didn't know the fight", but because the timing is VERY specific and you need to get a hands-on feel for the rotation cycle. Simply reacting will be too late. It's the bad tanks that don't get better or worse those who have 'already been through the dungeon' and never realize that there's more to tanking than facerolling RoH.

[GerMagic]

I'm by no means anywhere near Coil (didn'T even set foot in Turn 1 yet, though that's largely due to all groups shouting for "exp only" which I don't feel I have even after watching vids) and I can't understand how so many people have problems?

Granted, I'm tanking since Wow Vanilla and I did progress-raid for a year or-so in each of BC and Wotlk (no server-firsts or anything the like, but serious raiding 3x a week with a static if you will), but not yet have I ever been treated badly in this game. Not even once. I've played several 100s of 4 man dungeons and really never had anyone tell me off or harass me. The "worst" I ever got was "pull more mobs". So it's either you're worse than you think, or your behaviour that is leading to these flames (I can't believe I've only met nice people if supposedly so many people treat you like shit...).
I don't want to judge you or anything, nor am I saying you're a liar, but I just can't believe you're being 100% genuine. There has to be a reason for this, or you're exaggerating.

I have seen stuff like that happen in CT, but when it happened the tanks did always do something hilariously stupid (thats of course NOT a reason to treat someone badly, but I've seen it happen at least).



@ the last posting above: While I agree wiping 5 times is not exactly something that lets you get regarded as a good tank, I have to concur with "learning the dungeon". Unless we're talking high-end content I don't see why a tank would be obligated to educate himself before joining a dungeon. Now, I myself do it, just because it makes me feel more confident and as a tank I think that it's something thats needed to fullfill your role to the fullest. However, most DPS don't bother learning content, so why should a tank need to?
And if you're not okay with spending time with new people in a dungeon then go with your FC, it's as easy as that. Maybe I'm a bit too lenient, but if the group is nice (as in chatting friendly) I don't mind the timer as much. For example I had a WP group earlier with 2 BLM at 2.6k life and a healer with 3 life. We wiped like 3 or 4 times and the dungeon took us over an hour. It was still more fun than most runs that take 15 minutes, since you felt like you accomplished something and helped other people out a lot. That stupid rushing of dungeons is getting on my nerves anyway. I do it with my FC to farm tomes, but if I queue up for random people I don't expect them to be l33t-rush0rZ pros....

[BazFamrit]

snip

I'm not elitist at all. I'm not a hardcore gamer, I don't do speed runs and if someones new I do my best to teach them. I do, however, fault people for laziness. We all have access to the internet and it takes 5 minutes to pull up a guide of some sort. No one would ever fault a soldier for doing a bit of recon before attacking, in fact it's beneficial to the whole group to do so. If you're new and/or didn't have a chance to look up the instance then let people know you're new. It's that simple. Just say "i'm new" or "please let me know what I need to look out for". The selfish people who want to speed through everything have the choice to leave or stay and deal with it. If they complain, it was their choice to stay.

If you don't do your part by making people aware or doing some research then you deserve every bad comment directed towards you. I'm sorry but it's true. If i'm finding out you don't know what to do after the 4th or 5th wipe then each one of those wipes was a waste of time and gil for repairs. If people know you don't know what to do, they can explain it to you and save alot of time and money. Also, you'll get alot more positive feedback when you're new and perform better than people were expecting.

[Killabye]

I'm by no means anywhere near Coil (didn'T even set foot in Turn 1 yet, though that's largely due to all groups shouting for "exp only" which I don't feel I have even after watching vids) and I can't understand how so many people have problems?""

I'm only talking coil and beyond. If your not even doing coil then idk. I actually leveled drg just for coil because they talked so much trash during T1 so now I pre run with my dragoon to learn fights which is a good point by itself since I don't need a video to win with my drg. You guys took the five wipe thing out of context. Titan hm my first time I wiped in DF quite a few times, same for coil with random groups. Now you say waste peoples time. Is that how the creators feel? You think they made the game so rather than learning the mechanics you just watch a video?

[ZDamned]

I have only once in my tanking career been called out...
and it was for not "tanking" the 2nd boss in Copper Bell Hard Mode.
I promptly said ok, find a new tank, and quit.

But otherwise, I'm always thanked at the end of my runs, even when I was new. (I DF all the time, and always help teach new players how to do things.)\

So, I have no idea what anyone here is talking about.

[JeTaisNoobie]

I don't know why but I've never had problems tanking in a DF group ever before. In fact, I'm the one who usually ends up teaching or yelling at my team mates telling them to dps this or heal that. If I do yell at them, I usually get 0 commendations, but when I teach, I get all the commendations. I think you just have to be really sure of your skills(spells) and your personal skills, both of which I'm very sure of. Do a bit of quick reading on any guide of the dungeon/instance you are going to join. It's not difficult.

[lxSch]

All HM can be done with 1 tanker/healer, no point blaming just one.
I understand the issue with people's attitude in DF. Most of them were CT residents, but were forced into dungeons since CT does not drop a decent amount of ToS. Some of them just don't speak english well enough so they won't explain anything or listen.
I stopped tanking in DF, only PF or FC team.

[FurryFury]

Just my thoughts here, after running atma I've come to the understanding I'm a pretty good tank. I hold aggro on mobs over multiple tanks so I'm above average.

Do not judge other tank on FATE experience. You know, half of those "average" tanks was most likely solo or in random party w/o healer. So why they must bother to actually tank, when Mr.AboveAverage is so eager to do all the work? Esp. at atma fates, where you just need to hit several times for bronze rating and can run away to another fate.

And yes, i think all classes should do their homework before queueing/joining PF and don't waste other's people time with multiple wipes/overly long dungeon runs.

[Tyla_Esmeraude]

I completely agree with you, Killabye.

Everyone learns different ways, and not everyone can learn and get the fight down by just watching a video. Do you learn to draw by watching a video on how to draw? No. It takes practice and practice. (I use this example because I'm an artist). I am one of those persons that has to actually do the fight in order to learn it. Sure, I watch videos to get the basics, but you will still make mistakes. Watching a video is not the same as experiencing the fight.

Some people are truly impatient and that's what my problem is, too. I cannot learn the fight because people are just impatient and expect you to know it all. On top of that, they are rude. I've seen this so much once I started playing a tank job (my main has been WHM), and they do get a lot of shit and that's in dungeons, I can't even think about end game as a tank. However, I'm not gonna quit a job I like just because of the toxic community. I pay for the game so I have the right to play the jobs I want.
You can say "just go do it with people you know first" but not everyone is available at the same times. Unfortunately, you have to actually play with strangers in order to get things done, isn't this the reason why this is a MMORPG in the first place? Where did that good experience of meeting new people and downing things together, helping each other out, go? Now everyone is just so... individualistic and selfish.

So all of us have to deal with each other, might as well get along, we both win. Or don't get along and we both stress and lose. People do not deserve to be treated like shit. These are my thoughts.

[Killabye]

Idk I've seen better than me and worse. My drg was my highest leveled character for a long time. The ones better than me use macros better and talk more, the ones worse are much much worse. That's just on dungeon length and wipes. I mean I have 200 commendations, that's not much but almost all came as tank. This IS my first mmo but I've played all the roles like everyone else. Even when I'm heals or dps they gang up on the tank.