Parry...

[ks3v3n]

... and holding back most of the time (stupid RoH combo causing too much agro in dps stand LOL)

timeframe 33 seconds

RoH Combo+Fracture:
4x(150+200+260) + 300= 2740 potency, with 2 skills using aggro multiplier

Riot-Combo+Fracture
6x(150+230)+300 = 2.580 potency, w/o skills using aggro multiplier.

[Kitru]

timeframe 33 seconds

Fracture is only 300 potency for WARs thanks to the extended duration (100 + 10 ticks of 20). For PLDs, it's a mere 220 (100 + 6 ticks of 20).

As such, there are 3 basic "rotations" to discuss:

RoH x 2 + Fracture (Fracture will be reapplied just before Fracture fades; because of how DoTs work in FFXIV, that's actually right when you want to refresh them):
(150 + 200 + 260) * 2 + 220 = 1440 pot over 7 GCDs = 205.7 pot/GCD
(70 + 60 + 60) * 2 + 80 = 460 TP over 7 GCDs = 65.7 TP/GCD - 50 TP/GCD regen = 15.7 TP/GCD net loss

RoH spam:
150 + 200 + 260 = 610 pot over 3 GCDs = 203.33 pot/GCD
70 + 60 + 60 = 190 pot over 3 GCDs = 63.3 pot/GCD - 50 TP/GCD regen = 13.3 TP/GCD net loss

Riot Blade spam + Fracture:
(150 + 230) * 3 + 220 = 1360 over 7 GCDs = 194.3 pot/GCD
(70 + 80) * 3 + 80 = 530 over 7 GCDs = 75.7 TP/GCD - 50 TP/GCD regen = 25.7 TP/GCD net loss

As such, you'll see that Riot Blade + Fracture is the worst possible rotation by a fair deal. Even if it is ideally the lowest threat you can do, it's going to bottom you out *way* faster because Riot Blade is so inefficient. Fracture is also way worse than you thought it was. I wouldn't even bother with it, honestly, since it's a mere 1.2% increase in damage dealt but a much larger increase in TP consumption (way more net loss and a 3.8% increase in consumption over time).

The lack of 2x enmity modifier while out of SwO should be more than enough to allow you to RoH spam with impunity (.8 * 2 = 1.6 compared to SwO's 1.0). About the only time you're at risk of pulling off of the MT is if you're using FoF and/or you get a crit with RoH (SwO with FoF = 1.3; SwO crit = 1.5; SwO + crit + FoF = 1.95) immediately after a neutral enmity condition (someone just provoked or you're starting with a fresh enmity table).

[ks3v3n]

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k, you got me there with 6 vs 10 ticks, but no1 said you needa pump in riot combo the entire fight. it was an example how you can use every gcd right from the beginning or after tankswaps, w/o fear to pull of aggro

[Kitru]

k, you got me there with 6 vs 10 ticks, but no1 said you needa pump in riot combo the entire fight.

You're not going to be served using it for any extended period of time. At best, I would use it 1-2 times at the start if you're really worried (which you really shouldn't because the MT should be leading with a Shield Lob/Tomahawk and be a GCD ahead of you for combos). For any tank swap, you're almost always better served by simply Stoneskinning your tank partner: it generates less enmity and is, honestly, more useful than the couple hundred damage you'd do in those few GCDs.

[Remn]

Let me clarify ><, I only have the issue in T8, never had the issue in other content. In T8, I almost empty my TP with 2 min -*- with just RoH combo + Facture (on every 3rd combo). Using riot blade will empty it even faster ;S not an idea skill in T8 which has high DPS check. (these are when we try to have PLD minesweepers) work smooth but too much DPS lost. ;S
anyway, we change back to solo tanking.

[ks3v3n]

snip

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oh boy, i do have to. i'm one of the tanks not playin in a static, neither clearing the current content with only fc ppl. i'm forced to clear the content with mostly random ppl and some friends. those tanks on my server holding aggro against my constant pushing of dmg (i'm an ilvl 93 pld and i know my class very well), i can count with one hand tho. thats the reason y i do have to rotate the riot-combo 2 times when off-tanking or after a tankswap.

[Lord_Zlatan]

k, you got me there with 6 vs 10 ticks, but no1 said you needa pump in riot combo the entire fight. it was an example how you can use every gcd right from the beginning or after tankswaps, w/o fear to pull of aggro

what I have resorted to doing is stoneskin --> riot combo --> riot combo --> stone skin. that is definitely not set in stone, but you still get decent damage in SO, and you have no chance of taking aggro. if you are in a fight that requires tank swapping do the same thing but if your good you can stance dance well enough that right after u provoke you hit the combed Halone

[Kitru]

i'm forced to clear the content with mostly random ppl and some friends.

I do a vast majority of my content with PF groups, of which there will only be 1-2 people that I actually know most of the time, so I understand dealing with pug tanks. The way I solve it is by simply being the MT 99% of the time. If the other tank can't manage to keep aggro against what is an entirely acceptable level of OT threat, he needs to gtfo and let someone who actually *can* generate aggro play. If it's in a tank swap fight, you shouldn't be complaining because Stoneskin after tank swap is one of those uses of Stoneskin that is *always* highly useful, and you're effectively generating no threat while Stoneskinning. If you're *still* liable to pull off of them even when you Stoneskin 2-3 times after a swap, that's someone who shouldn't even be in the run.

[Lord_Zlatan]

. If the other tank can't manage to keep aggro against what is an entirely acceptable level of OT threat, he needs to gtfo and let someone who actually *can* generate aggro play. If it's in a tank swap fight, you shouldn't be complaining because Stoneskin after tank swap is one of those uses of Stoneskin that is *always* highly useful, and you're effectively generating no threat while Stoneskinning. If you're *still* liable to pull off of them even when you Stoneskin 2-3 times after a swap, that's someone who shouldn't even be in the run.

does that actually happen?

and yes, the solution is to just take over as MT. But if honestly never been in a situation where if I am purposely generating as little enmity as possible, that I creep on the other tank (EG, only casting stoneskin)

[Jitenshazuki]

On a tank swap your aggro before swap is irrelevant. All swaps starts from voke that makes your emnity equal to MT's emnity plus one. You can just manderville all the way and still be able to swap providen that your df/pf group hasn't kicked you, but MT SHOULD help you.

Why he should? Skill, bla-bla-bla? Well because if he continues rotating his emnity combo and its finisher crits right after you voke then your combo finisher boosted by Fight or Flight won't make boss switch on you as +30% is obviously less than +50%. Using off-gcd damaging abilities helps a bit but sadly cannot guarantee clean swap. And I cannot express in words how I hate unclean swaps.

(Once I saw a tank popping FoF during swap, oh Twelve, WHY?)

Anyway the topic is Parry... the thread kinda strayed far from it.