Parry...

[bokchoykn]

solo tanking T8 w/ sword oath seem a bit unrealistic with my i95 PLD. with shield oath I take 3k ish from boss Laser and another 1k ish from his AA. that plus Dread add is really brutal on me xD. as of now, I'm barely survive boss laser + aa +Dread swing + AA. T_T

I usually pop Foresight + rampart + Convo + Sentinal/Bulwak (alternate these 2 for each dread) my 180 sec CD wont be up for 2nd dread if I pop it on the first 1 ;S
BTW, any1 know the HP pool of T8 boss? is it exactly 1 mil ?

I was being facetious. I think ZDamned misread it as 170DPS as a Warrior Pseudo-DPS in Turn 8 (which would be pretty low) and not the Main Tank in full-time defiance.

T8 Boss has just under 1 Mil DPS. I think it was 995k or something.

[Remn]

Ah xP,
My group currently working on T8 atm. we got him down to 27% then wipe ;S our total DPS was at 1700-1750 DPS ish so far. hopefully that not too low.
still working on landmine strat. we wipe a few time because of that xS, currently using solo PLD tank, thinking about dropping the extra DPS for WAR w/ DPS gear to deal with landmine.

[bokchoykn]

Ah xP,
My group currently working on T8 atm. we got him down to 27% then wipe ;S our total DPS was at 1700-1750 DPS ish so far. hopefully that not too low.
still working on landmine strat. we wipe a few time because of that xS, currently using solo PLD tank, thinking about dropping the extra DPS for WAR w/ DPS gear to deal with landmine.

I think the benchmark to beat it is 1650, but more is definitely better. You want to spend as little time in the final phase as possible and end it quickly.

Our first kill was at 1815 DPS with Paladin Solo Tank. Our second kill was 1770 DPS (w/ one death).
I'd highly recommend against using a Warrior. The benefits of a tanky minesweeper is not worth the loss of ~100 DPS.

[NightReach]

if u have to use a 5th dps, ure not going to make the 4x dps check back to back in t9, it is that simple. Don't use crutches, it makes you a worse player, its been long enough that ur dps should be more then geared enough.

[subteraneanbird]

if u have to use a 5th dps, ure not going to make the 4x dps check back to back in t9, it is that simple. Don't use crutches, it makes you a worse player, its been long enough that ur dps should be more then geared enough.

Here, let me quote myself from a few pages ago:

I'm pretty sure exactly zero people are suggesting that tanks should gear to help pass DPS checks, because that is silly. More that in the grand realm of theory, being able to gear your damage up to shave a reasonable amount of time (like 30 seconds) off a battle could be more mitigation than parry if it turns out parry really is as ineffective as has been suggested. Obviously the bad itemization in this game makes that unlikely anytime soon, but who knows!

Pay special attention to the bolded part

[bokchoykn]

if u have to use a 5th dps, ure not going to make the 4x dps check back to back in t9, it is that simple. Don't use crutches, it makes you a worse player, its been long enough that ur dps should be more then geared enough.

TIL using a 5th DPS in a 1 tank fight makes the other 4 DPS "worse players".

[MythToken]

I am sorry but to all of you who are suddenly against +30 STR, the ONLY argument you had for not taking parry was to mitigate damage through DPS.
you can't now turn around and say that STR isn't worth it, and in fact would be the biggest increase to your DPS.

We are talking about end game here, going from 30Vit to 30 Str, sure I don't have 8500 hp, but I do have 8000. Does that 500 really matter? I havn't seen an instance so far that it has.
If all of you are arguing that Parry won't save you, then I argue neither will that 500 hp.

Hell you could put +5 into vit and get a lil more hp if you are hurting for it. I am not.

Also STR is a main stat not just VIT get over it.

Again, if mitigating damage is the goal, then doing as much dps as possible while staying alive is exactly what adding STR does. If i don't need the HP then I don't see how you can argue against gearing for dps stats.

STR also increases the amount you parry for, the amount you second wind heals you, the amount your bloodbath heals you, the amount your IB heals you, ect ect ect

[ManaKeKz]

the ONLY argument you had for not taking parry was to mitigate damage through DPS.

No. There were 2 dominant arguments I've seen in this thread:

- Parry is unreliable mitigation. Especially with maximum values of way below 50%, it will likely not mitigate that one big hit when you need it to.
- Parry gain is very small. While 13 parry may be 1% parry chance, at 23% parry strength that is only ~1.8% statistical, unreliable mitigation per 100 points.

Neither of these two points apply to the 30 vit debate, it isn't unreliable and the effective gain is a lot higher. Unlike parry, vit actually increases your eHP and that is what you want to gear for, after all.

Edit: Many of the more frequent contributors like ZDamned and Casper have stated since the very beginning that dropping vit for DPS was never up for debate, only the secondary stats were being examined.

[Kitru]

Unlike parry, vit actually increases your eHP and that is what you want to gear for, after all.

eHP isn't everything. Parry would be an absolutely amazing stat if the returns on it weren't so low, which is the problem. The first argument (RNG mitigation) is only a factor because of the second argument (very small returns). It's not a question of mean mitigation not being a valuable aspect of tanking to improve, but rather, potentially, the improvements to mean mitigation not being worth the opportunity cost paid to tank DPS.

Personally, I haven't seen all that much of a significant increase when geared for det/crit compared to straight up parry which really just tells me that the comparative value of all of the secondary stats is equally miniscule. If they're all equally miniscule, then I don't really see a point in gearing for damage rather than mitigation since mean mitigation *is* a higher priority for tanks than damage is (the basic priority in burst heavy scenarios that the ARR devs seem to prefer is eHP>mean mitigation>damage).

As to STR v. VIT, VIT should still be your priority because it doesn't suffer from any of the flaws that Parry does while simultaneously operating on a higher priority goal for tanks. Even if you want to make a case for STR contributing to mean mitigation by increasing parry effectiveness, the contributions of 30 STR aren't going to make nearly the difference than 30 VIT is (not to mention that increasing STR actually increases your relative spikiness, interestingly enough, whereas more Parry decreases your spikiness).

[MythToken]

I understand all of the above, but the case made for prioritizing dps secondary stats was made under the conclusion that the increased dps was actually a net gain of damage mitigation, over the parry stats damage mitigation.
^ if we assume this is correct then follow me down this rabbit hole for a second.

So IF you are tanking Turn 5+ and your HP pool is not an issue. I think it would be safe to say that migrating a few points out of VIT and into STR would be a significant increase in effectiveness.
Especially if you have now stopped gearing for parry and started boosting crit and det, which will both be further boosted by more STR.

I am not suggesting going +30 STR and 0 VIT. I AM saying that +5 STR/ +25 VIT +15/+15, ect are now worth looking at. Again this all depends on the fight, and your healers.
If you are not dying from boss hits, then adding STR seems like a very legit thing to do. Especially with changing 2ndary stats to dps.