Parry...

[PiedPiper]

You're straw manning my point, and yes you're right that it's not a one to one comparison. Of course cool downs are different and valuable because of their precise nature.

I was just showing that 2% dr over time isn't as small as it seems.


More, because Casper's numbers are right (or at least right-er), parry can be pushed high enough that you can begin to "count" on it over time.

By stacking a stat like parry, favoring buckler over kite shields and so on, the cumulative effect if these stats work together to greatly flatten the damage you receive over time.

[PiedPiper]

More to the point, this thread is discussing parry vs dps stats and (OP) saying the odds of parry saving you (thus preventing a wipe) are lower than the odds of the tank's dps increase making the entire group pass some dps check (thus preventing a wipe).

As Casper pointed out. A 20% dps increase on a paladin is still only about 20 dps, in a group of 4 dps, all of which should now pull no less than 200, that is adding 20 dps to about 1000 dps group total (counting both tanks) give or take a few points. This is a VERY small increase.


Parry, however, at the 600+ numbers imparts about a 45-50% chance to parry an attack you fail to block (which you already stood a 40ish% chance to block with a buckler). This means every attack you take has to (nearly) flip and land on tails twice to take full damage. This is actually pretty reliable. Even over the seconds they are active, foresight and bulwark are both weaker than highly stated parry.

[Megido]

As Casper pointed out. A 20% dps increase on a paladin is still only about 20 dps, in a group of 4 dps, all of which should now pull no less than 200, that is adding 20 dps to about 1000 dps group total (counting both tanks) give or take a few points. This is a VERY small increase.

It doesnt really matter who does the damage. That 20 dps increase would probably take a single dps weeks to get. Everything is a small increase in this game so thats not a real good argument. That 20 dps could just help you skip a phase or get a kill without having to wait another 1-2 resets, or in case of a dps dying and getting weakness on a boss barely at farm, that extra dps might just make it a non issue.

@ above, i would never trade 1% DR for 1% dmg. No tank ever should. But the difference seems to be more in favor of dmg, comparatively to your statement.

[ZDamned]

No, You made a terrible point. Flat Out, there is no comparison.

You failed to prove anything, because 2% dr IS very small over time. Were still looking at sub 5000 numbers here. Thats less than a full HP Bar for a Paladin.
AND Unless your party has no Bards in it, chances are, your healers are perfectly fine on MP.

If that was true, then why are we losing parry going into "BIS" ilvl110? Does SE want us to take more damage?

There is not enough points to allot in any 2ndary stat to make anything become reliable enough to count on except for the raw DPS increase of Determination.

Even if you look at it over time, the encounters still vary too much, and the damage reduced over the course of a fight is honestly negligible.

If you are in a situation where your Health is consistently hovering at a range where you will die unless you parry the next hit, then your healers are not good enough for the encounter you are on.

Ever since I swapped over to Crit/Determination gear, my healers have still said they noticed no difference at all in healing me. If the healers out there don't care, then why should we reduce our damage output?
We also become more successful in Downing T6 AFTER I changed, so obviously the BIS 90 was not exactly making or breaking anything at all even while learning a new encounter.

Counter Example: in turn 5, you do actually use all of them pretty much on cool down. The way death sentence timing works out is that if you use ramp, forsight + conv, sent, ramp is up for next, fs+conv, bulwark, ramp, fs+conv, sent etc.


So yeah. Sometimes the best use is almost on cool down. Oh, and with parry on top of your cool downs, sometimes death sentence hits you for exactly zero, and that's pretty cool.

No, Just because that is how you tank T5, doesn't mean that is what everyone does. I solo tank T5, and use my CD's for the initial pull, then I save my CD's for Snakes and for Healer locks during Liquid Hell. Hallowed Ground is ONLY used when I get targeted by Liquid Hell at the end. Blowing CD's just for Death Sentence means your Healers are bad, and can't learn how to time Stone Skin/Adlo.

Parry, however, at the 600+ numbers imparts about a 45-50% chance to parry an attack you fail to block (which you already stood a 40ish% chance to block with a buckler). This means every attack you take has to (nearly) flip and land on tails twice to take full damage. This is actually pretty reliable. Even over the seconds they are active, foresight and bulwark are both weaker than highly stated parry.

You are so wrong... If I could parry 45-50% of the time, I would never have started this thread.
PS: I have more parry than you do, and I NEVER see your magic numbers.