Parry...

[Casper]

To give you a comparison of what your "testing" achieved:

Ask a friend to watch yourself kill ennemies while you use a set with 15% crit rate and another with 22% crit rate, without telling him beforehand what you are testing. Afterwards, ask him to tell you if he thought there was a difference in the speed at which things died, and if so which one was the fastest. There is no way for someone to give an accurate answer to this. Not only watching with the eye is not accurate, but you WILL crit more with the 15% set than with the 22% set on a non-negligible number of fights. 15 to 22% crit rate also imply the stacking of over 150 crit rate in stats. This doesn't mean crit rate is negligible. It is just very hard to evaluate its impact without proper tools, as is parry.

[Megido]

So 50 parry is 1% dmg reduction? I made BiS set focusing on det+crit and a set focusing on parry, the difference is a little over 100 parry. So thats 200hp on a 10k hp pool. 200/15=13 vit. That is the hp of a single i80 accessory if you would die from physical hits only. In return for wads of crit and det that might just force a phase change or kill faster. If that 2% on physical hits is make or break for you and the healers, you are probably severely undergeared for the content, and wont be having a BiS set anytime soon anyway.

I feel parry is mainly an aoe tank stat. Dropping 500 parry would be a bad idea, and is impossible, but up to 150 should not whipe raids.

[Casper]

The problem is not going 100 to zero. It is what adds overtime for your healers that need to dodge mechanics, heal the raid and the other tank and dps that eat random crap. Anything you can do to help them, you should.


If the difference is 100 parry, then the difference in secondary stats is about 100 total det/crit/SS. 50 of those adds about 1% to your damage. 100 would amount to 2% of your dps. Given a tank is going to do 100 to 120 dps on most fights, you are quite literally talking about adding 2 to 3 dps to the 1000 to 1200 dps of your group. I am quite certain you are better off with the parry.

I don't know why people that want so badly to poop on parry to justify dps stats can't see objectively at how bad those stats are. 100 parry is about 8% parry rate. Each time you parry (24% DR) you have made things easier for your healers. The abyssmal dps increase you want so badly can not come any close to that, period. Will it wipe raids to lose 100 parry ? Most likely not often, but it WILL make it harder on your healers. Now i can ask you the same question: when does increasing your raid overall dps by 2 to 3 (aka 0.25% of the raid dps) is going to make or break a dps check ? How often do you fail a dps check by 0.25% ? My guess is, much less often than the parry rate helping out.

[Remn]

Pretty sure gearing toward Det/Crit will net you 20DPS increase. I tank T5 Pre 2.2 with Crit Gear and never got Complaint form healer once. I would say parry is good to have but not requirement.
BTW, casper can you tell me how you get only 2-3DPS increase from Det/Crit set? becasue going back a few page there a post that state you gain 15-20DPS for Det/Crit set.

also Parry carry too much randomness (for me that is)><. you can have 100 parry that all happen on boss auto atk and never parry on the big atk. T_T
(look like there a few Det gear on the new PLD set. so i will be gearing more toward Det for i100-i110 ;D)

[Casper]

It is easy enough on crit. You need about 26 crit to get 1% more crit chance. Each crit is 50% damage more than a non-crit. With 50 crit you get about 2% crit chance, so about 1% increase in dps, from your 100 to 120 = 1 to 1.2 dps increase.

Det is on par with that.

Gearing for crit and det you are going to sacrifice about 200 parry. You cant get more than 200 of total det + crit. That's a 4% damage increase, so 5 dps increase. Absolutely no way this will let you win 15-20. Not as if people claiming that did anything more than finger in the wind testing anyway to back up their claim.

I urge you to test by yourself. It IS underwhelming.

By the way, if you gear for Str accessories, that is another story entirely; in this case you can win more dps (but you sacrifice vitality too there). However, even in this case, you should still stack up on parry before starting adding det/crit on your melds.

[Remn]

I see, Thank for the Info.
hopefully I have enough luck for Coil to drop some tank stuff with parry.
other wise i prolly goin with iLV > acc > w/e i have at the time lol.

[ZDamned]

I consistently up my DPS by 25 with my Crit/Determination gear on. I'm gearing entirely with Crit/Determination for i110.
I don't see why you are saying things like 4-5 DPS, because when a Paladin goes from averaging between 80 and 100 up to averaging 125-130, That is a huge boost in overall damage that NEVER stops hitting the boss. Then there are the times when you Off Tank, or Tank Swap, and go into Sword Oath. Your giving yourself a tremendous boost at that point, and every single point in Parry is wasted for that time.
Based on that alone, fights like T6 giving you 50% of the fight NOT getting hit, I would say you are wasting a lot of potential damage.
And FYI, My group has wiped to T6 at EXACTLY .2% Which would have been a kill if I was in my Crit/Determination gear that time.

[PiedPiper]

So, Casper is super duper correct. Like, super duper.

For one, let's just say the op's estimate of like 1-2% damage reduction from full parry was right. Yes, this sounds trivial, but you know what else only reduces about 2% damage over time? Hallowed Ground.

Rampart: 20 seconds every 90, 20% reduction = 4.44% DR over time.
Sentinel: 10 seconds every 180, 40% reduction = 2.2% DR over time.
Hallowed Ground: 10 seconds every 420, 100% reduction = 2.38% DR over time.
Convalescence: 20 seconds every 120, 30% healing received = 5% HR over time.
Total increases from cool downs:
9.04% DR over time
11.58% eHP over time
16.58% HR over time

[PiedPiper]

So, if full parry gave you 2%, it would be equal to having an extra sentinel to pop over time. More, this would amount to a 20% increase in total dr over time (2% added to the ~10% from abilities.) so yeah.... It's pretty cool even at this low value.

Not to mention my own testing on turn 5 pre 2.2 has agreed with Casper's value. The returns are very high.

Where parry shines is on big hitting mobs in very strenuous situations. Having so much parry made me able to solo tank twin, which was the only way my group could win. Continuing to have it is allowing us to solo tanking turn 6. Those percentages add up. In places like 5 and 6, in many ways the auto attacks are more dangerous. You don't get killed by the 8 stack cleave, it's the AA after it that drops you. High parry and block gives you a strong statistical chance to mitigate and live in danger situations.

Ps: @50 parry = 1% dr, I'm at about 620 atm. Aka 12.4% Aka more than my entire cool down suite.

[ZDamned]

If we all look at situation oriented cool downs as Damage Reduction over time like that, then you are playing the wrong class... Go to Warrior, since they can activate IB ALL the time, and access WAY more damage reduction than a Paladin can.

No good tank activates Rampart whenever it's up, nor Sentinel, AND NEVER HALLOWED GROUND.

Those cooldowns are for either emergencies(Healer down, other is rezzing, Range issues etc), or planned spike damage.

You can NOT calculate activated cooldowns into your overall effective HP, because unless intelligently activated, you won't see any proper use of them.

Try running Levi EX, and just pop HG right away, I'm sure your group will be happy with you for that in the middle of the 2nd Spume Phase.