Suggestion for the PvP Queue.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

for starters all my experiences between PLD and WAR are strictly from PvE. as PvP is pretty much dead. impossible to get a match lol



i geared both exactly the same. save for the main and off-hand slots, but zofcourse. and reseted the bonus stats on PLD for STR. they both sit at AIL80.

PLD has 390 STR and 213 DET

WAR has 400 STR and 221 DET.

it's only a slight difference. but already WAR is more offensive.




test 1...

PLD kills 7 Lv50 Striking Dummies in 2minutes.
buffs/de-buffs used : Sword Oath
cross-class actions used : none

WAR kills 9 Lv50 Striking Dummies in 2minutes.
buffs/de-buffs used : Maim and Storm's Eye
cross-class actions used : none


test 2...

PLD kills 9 Lv50 Striking Dummies in 2minutes.
buffs/de-buffs used : Sword Oath and Fight or Flight.
cross-class actions used : Fracture and Mercy Stroke

WAR kills 13 Lv50 Striking Dummies in 2minutes.
buffs/de-buffs used : Defiance(only temporarily) Infuriate, Unchained and Berserk. Maim and Storm's Eye.
cross-class actions used : none


Unchained and Berserk was used separately.







the PLD is heavily defense focused. it has damage reduction from Shield Oath. and can block incoming physical attacks. plus you have the two buffs, Rampart and Sentinel. which reduce damage directly. and they don't just increase P.Defense like Foresight does. which PLD can also use Foresight. however WAR can not use either Rampart or Sentinel. if WAR could use those then it would upset their balance between defensive and offensive capabilities. which WAR excels at neither. while again, PLD excels at defense.


from personal experiences i have always felt the PLD to be lacking in damage. with the WAR being capable of a higher damage output. however NO tank role should ever be considered a viable source of damage when compared to any melee damage role.







P.S. maybe viable is the wrong word? lol :/

[bbt]

You're forgetting Marauders and Full Swing, both of which blow tank damage way out of proportion.

the PLD is heavily defense focused. it has damage reduction from Shield Oath. and can block incoming physical attacks. plus you have the two buffs, Rampart and Sentinel. which reduce damage directly. and they don't just increase P.Defense like Foresight does. which PLD can also use Foresight. however WAR can not use either Rampart or Sentinel. if WAR could use those then it would upset their balance between defensive and offensive capabilities. which WAR excels at neither. while again, PLD excels at defense.

Our defensive cooldowns have no meaning when we're never targeted and always the last to die. Because of this Warriors can freely remove Defiance and Paladins can sit in Sword Oath.

Defensive: WAR >= PLD > MRD
Offensive: MRD > PLD > WAR

from personal experiences i have always felt the PLD to be lacking in damage. with the WAR being capable of a higher damage output.

Any tank class can output incredible burst damage with use of a single ability: Full Swing, which allows us to bring full direwolf targets to critical HP with only 2-3 GCDs. It's burst enabled through Full Swing/cooldowns and without these we are little more than an agitator with a long stun.

however NO tank role should ever be considered a viable source of damage when compared to any melee damage role.

DPS roles all have much higher sustained damage when compared to tank roles. I have never outparsed an equal level DPS even when I am on a target for the entire match as a Paladin.

Take away our damage and we become an insignificant role without meaning or purpose.

[BLaCKnBLu3B3RRY]

You're forgetting Marauders and Full Swing, both of which blow tank damage way out of proportion.

hm. forgetting? or just don't know? lol. nah i don't know anything about that. i've been meaning to set up a level 30 build. just for fun

Our defensive cooldowns have no meaning when we're never targeted and always the last to die. Because of this Warriors can freely remove Defiance and Paladins can sit in Sword Oath.

Defensive: WAR >= PLD > MRD
Offensive: MRD > PLD > WAR

right. i understand. i was just pointing out how much more PLD excels at defense over WAR. which WAR does not excel at defense when compared to PLD. (though these determinations can also be quite situational) so it would stand to reason a WAR SHOULD be more offensively capable then PLD

DPS roles all have much higher sustained damage when compared to tank roles. I have never outparsed an equal level DPS even when I am on a target for the entire match as a Paladin.

Take away our damage and we become an insignificant role without meaning or purpose.

right. i wasn't trying to say a tanks damage is useless. but you shouldn't rely on tanks in the field of damage when trying to clear group content.

lol it amazes me when i run a dungeon and i almost always the one to have to finish off an enemy. IMO any weapon skill users, except a tank performing a tank role, should finish the enemy. that and DoT. this gives the caster and tank time to cycle ahead. and set up de-buffs or DoT spells. it also helps so the caster isn't always throwing out a dead cast when the enemy is near death.









P.S. i am pretty sure this whole thing has been completely taken away from the topic about reducing the friggin' queue times for PvP. meh oh wells. lol

[Almaxia]

hm. forgetting? or just don't know? lol. nah i don't know anything about that. i've been meaning to set up a level 30 build. just for fun

If you don't know, why these post about tank ! And why are you speaking about dungeon ? Or even warrior ? Speaking about defensive ability is pointless in Arena when you are not a priority target.

It's simple, in arena, "Tanks" doesn't have a tanking role. They are not DPS either (their substainable DPS is lower than DPS classes). They have light control (Stun/HG) and burst (Offensive CDs) and this toolset is really good to create kill opportunity. There is two option MRD and PLD. MRD have more burst, PLD have a bit more Control and utility.

P.S. i am pretty sure this whole thing has been completely taken away from the topic about reducing the friggin' queue times for PvP. meh oh wells. lol

Everything have been say about this i think : fix queue (can't PvP since 2.2), remove DC restriction, give goals to PvP player.

[Kassiekane]

Almaxia, I am seriously having a hard time figuring out why you think PvP in its current state is balanced. It is, undoubtedly, far from balanced. Why do you think the 1 ranged, 1 melee was imposed on party composition?

On subject - Since the new, wonderful que system was implemented, que times took a punch to the face. Because of this, less people qued, which caused a chain reaction of people not queing. Really, is not getting to play PvP at all better then getting steamrolled by r30s? IMO, I don't think so. Let it go back to the way it was, please.

[x037x]

, is not getting to play PvP at all better then getting steamrolled by r30s? IMO, I don't think so. Let it go back to the way it was, please.

THIS... ^^

I pugged my way to rank 30 as a WHM.. constantly healing bands of wayward noobs waking things up.. DPSing the tank etc, ignoring the healer.. etc, wearing shit gear etc.............. against the 3 man premades of Zalera, Faerie, (DEC-FEB) (Dusty, Mirth, Blue Blankets, Ryu and his clan of 1 shotters, etc.. . ) when they weren't even rank 30 yet...You want to talk about unfair?... it was HELL. It was the 12 HELLS. I never complained though.. just dusted myself off and queued up again. People need to man up, if they hadn't whined so much they could have had rank 30 already from points awarded from losses... now you're lucky to get 2 matches per hour..... hope you're happy.

[Almaxia]

Almaxia, I am seriously having a hard time figuring out why you think PvP in its current state is balanced. It is, undoubtedly, far from balanced. Why do you think the 1 ranged, 1 melee was imposed on party composition?

I don't think PvP is totally balanced in its current state (Sleep ^_^ and some little things). And I don't know why the party restriction was imposed. 1 ranged and 1 melee was probably made because of the double SMN party or SMN/BLM party. Still Melee can do great damages, they have their place (even if the skillcap seems higher). In the end, "good players", whatever they play, will shine.

[x037x]

I don't think PvP is totally balanced in its current state (Sleep ^_^ and some little things). And I don't know why the party restriction was imposed. 1 ranged and 1 melee was probably made because of the double SMN party or SMN/BLM party. Still Melee can do great damages, they have their place (even if the skillcap seems higher). In the end, "good players", whatever they play, will shine.

It was imposed because people were choosing ranged over melee. 1 decked out DPS tank and 2 ranged was the most popular set up leaving melee out in the cold. Also 2 ranged vs 2 melee was way unbalanced.