atma drop rates

[blacksheepwall]

If they just made it so can also pick them up once activated from any character, I'd be happy as it is. Riding back and forth for hours, not just in the hope you get a drop but actually get to the fate before it's been stomped is soul destroying stuff.

[Riyos]

I haven't even started getting any Atmas and I think this system is awesome.

[lxSch]

Translation: I like very low drop rates and so does everyone else.

FFXIV:ARR was marketed and sold as a casual friendly MMO. It was never meant to be in the same league as the old grind-fest MMOs. If players really, REALLY liked that kind of gameplay than FFXIV 1.0 would have been a smash hit and would have been raking in money instead of tanking the same month it was released which required they rebuild the game from the ground up and the original team got "restructured" (pretty sure that's a fancy word for fired). If your expectation was for a grindy, hard game with the possibility of zero progress then you bought the wrong game. The market for MMOs has completely shifted from that and it's not profitable to make them that way anymore. You can like whatever kind of game you like, but don't for a second think this game was meant for the hardcore when they specifically said it was designed for the casual player.

I'm not dropping $50 for a console game I can play at my leisure. I'm spending at leas $180 a year in subscription fees, and this is not the kind of gameplay I signed up for.

I was replying mostly to this statement:

The Atmas are completely random and it's entirely possible to never get one. It's not a loot pool to pray for your drop. It's a completely random drop, from a completely random FATE, there are 12 of them in total, and since the rates are so low some players may never see all of them or even just one. No player of any game should accept something like this. Especially if they're paying for the subscription.

Because there were and are (not old) grind-fest games (subscription based $15-$30 a month, old and new) and they are good, thus saying "grind fest should never be accepted" is not very correct considering it's popularity.
I did not play 1.0, but i think it failed not because of grind, but because firstly many features (including grind) were done wrong, second - casual games are much more popular on the west (why else SE hired a western casual games developer to rebuild the game).
Grindy does not mean having zero progress, it's just SE grind implementation is bad and many people will have zero progress for weeks. Grind usually means you run an instance and get a random drop, then sell it for profit, and there is a very small chance you get a rare item drop worth weeks of grind. If you don't get the item dropped - you get enough money to buy it. Also you get experience and advance in levels, so by no means grindy means having zero progress.
Neither grindy means hardcore - one can play 1h a day and get a progress; hardcore will play for 6h a day and get more progress, the only difference will be their progress speed.
But SE grind implementation (without player trade and additional drop) is bad.
I would agree they should not make such a big shift in play style in 2.2, but considering titan fight in pre-2.2 where many people (mostly outside of n/a and japan) were simply locked out for weeks from titan HM due to latency issue, and completely unable to finish titan EX for the same reason - i have to say this shift has happened a long time ago and is simply progressing now, getting a wider audience.
I expect SE to make more changes like this just to ensure people keep subscribed for a long time. I just hope they will see own mistakes and correct them, because currently ffxiv is a mix of casual and hardcore players who are forced to do the same content.
I would prefer is they make content for each playstyle and do not force everyone to do all content.

[RocketSkates]

I agree that nobody is forcing anyone to farm atma. However, a huge element of wanting to see and run endgame content is wanting to have the best gear in the game. First of all, the gamers who run endgame content and the gamers who would want so spend 5-6000 hours running mindless low level content are rarely the same. So to say spending several hours doing something you wont enjoy just so you can have an item to use for content you actually will enjoy is just silly. Second of all, I consider the relic weapon quests a main part of the FFXIV experience. We are forced to do a long and unexciting main story line in order to unlock so much of this games content (WHY?!) So of course we are going to do a little bit more to get awesome gear. The part everyone is having a hard time with is why an extremely low drop rate item farm would be the next step in this saga. In theory you could potentially NEVER receive a SINGLE ATMA let alone 12!

[Valius]

The problem with Atmas is how random it is. How is it fair to the guy who has been grinding low level FATEs for three hours that some random guy joins the party and gets the drop after one FATE? The guy that has been there for hours has clearly put in the work, yet the other guy gets the reward? Ridiculous.

Since obtaining Atmas is pure chance this causes the player to feel like they've wasted their time if one does not drop at the FATE's conclusion. Unacceptable. Tedium should not be mistaken for challenge, and grinding low level FATEs for Atmas is pure tedium. Nobody is asking for instant Atma drops here, they just want to feel like they are making progress, which is sorely lacking from the current way things are set up.

The whole system is horrible. You may think that doing the book objectives once you get all 12 Atmas is better, and it is, up until you have to complete a FATE that hasn't occurred for 5 hours.

[Maero]

well most of the loot/gear system if not all is rng in the game
Still grinding away with 5 atmas atm.
I am thinking along the lines that perhaps SE noticed players not doing fates anymore so they needed a reason for players to do so?

[Worm]

The problem with Atmas is how random it is. How is it fair to the guy who has been grinding low level FATEs for three hours that some random guy joins the party and gets the drop after one FATE? The guy that has been there for hours has clearly put in the work, yet the other guy gets the reward? Ridiculous.

Since obtaining Atmas is pure chance this causes the player to feel like they've wasted their time if one does not drop at the FATE's conclusion. Unacceptable. Tedium should not be mistaken for challenge, and grinding low level FATEs for Atmas is pure tedium. Nobody is asking for instant Atma drops here, they just want to feel like they are making progress, which is sorely lacking from the current way things are set up.

The whole system is horrible. You may think that doing the book objectives once you get all 12 Atmas is better, and it is, up until you have to complete a FATE that hasn't occurred for 5 hours.

It still kind of annoys me that these are arguments against RNG and grinding in general rather than the real problems with the ATMA grind, mainly that we're redoing content we've redone multiple times. I've done RNG grinds in the past and I've enjoyed them, I've even grinded in single player games before and enjoyed that, and I'm sick of seeing posters self-assuredly whip something up as if they've come upon the argument that finally kills grinding forever.

Yeah it's luck, yeah it's unfair, yeah it can be mind numbing ... so what? What if you pick a server with a lot of people you like who behave well, is that a skill based choice? Your Free Company, was that a skill based choice? You down a boss and an item you can use drops, is this somehow now skill? Maybe you roll against someone and win, isn't it unfair to them if they've been running that boss longer that you're allowed to walk off with their item? Should that person get a bonus to his roll in relation to how many times he hasn't seen that item drop? Would that be fair to you?

Luck and chance are -- believe it or not -- historically central aspects of many games. Even a number of your stats are based off a roll system, your damage is based off a roll system, heck whether you make it to the end of the day alive might as well be based off a roll system. There is nothing inherently wrong with chance I'm sick of people snarking so much about something that literally OVERFLOWS from videogames. Spare me your scare quotes and your hyperbolic adjectives, the only thing that's ridiculous or unacceptable is you posting about this issue as if they're bringing back Poll Taxes.

As for "no-skill" grinding, well that really depends. Yeah anyone could have gotten the Megaman outfit in Dead Rising, yeah anyone could have gotten the Insane in the Membrane achievement in WoW. However I feel like there are general questions of efficiency and good decisions when you talk about grind, now I'm not saying they're particularly sexy skills or even laudable ones. Though if you more efficiently run over zombies in the underground parking garage in Dead Rising you'll get your achievement and desired item faster. Certainly this grind could be done by anyone, but some people are going to do it more efficiently by paying attention, understanding how much damage the car can take before it breaks, and not letting the car break in a giant crowd of zombies.

In the same way I multiple times would notice people sitting at a fate like Dog Eat Dog in Western Thanalan, completely unaware that one more mob was left and not knowing where it would spawn. Over hours of farming those little mistakes might slow you down enough to take away the roll you would have won, so I feel like you're completely ignoring the aspect of efficiency within any grind. I'll agree with you that sitting and waiting for a fate to spawn is awful, but historically they modified those types of fates to spawn more often so I'd probably personally wait on the change than sitting there for 5 hours.

I honestly understand how players can find this frustrating but this whole "RNG SUX" attitude just really irritates me. I don't want everything in these games to be a token treadmill.

[Freyar]

Yeah it's luck, yeah it's unfair, yeah it can be mind numbing ... so what?

It's not what a lot of people are willing to pay for which is why this is such a huge argument to begin with. I don't have a problem with a grind, it can be relaxing in some cases, provided progress is seen. I've been grinding on and off since Atma has shown and I've got one of twelve. That's not fun, that's boring, especially since I'm redoing the same FATEs I did before.

Give me a concrete method of measuring progress. As it is, I'm gambling my time in hopes of an Atma drop and still the guy next to me manages to complete his collection with minimal time investments (and then turns around and says "Hay, it isn't that bad.. is easy!")

RNG can be a useful tool, but it does indeed suck when it's used improperly.

[Psyreal]

Worm I read all your posts recently and I think you don't understand what we are trying to say. The problem is not the RNG part. There is and always be a RNG part with mmorpg, the main problem here is the game design. Having a RNG part with something challenging and fun is ok. Having a rng part with something boring, requiring no skill etc is a mistake.

I have no problem in real life with my job to spend time on something long with no garanteed result in the end, but the thing is ... it's a game and I don't have anything to prove in a game I just want it to be fun and exciting. ATMA is not fun nor exciting and as a consequence shouldn't be part of a game.

[geekgirl101]

7/12 atmas, 60 hours later and no more drops. I think the waiting time for a drop is a bit excessive. :P Doesn't help when a random error 90k pops out in the middle of a fate either.

To the tune of I Wanna Go Home by Van Morrison:

I was in La Noscea one day,
I was looking around for a fate,
One appeared on the other side of the map that was too far away.
I wanna go home!
Please let me go home.
I say give me my atma,
I wanna go home!

To the tune of I Love 64 by Mind.In.A.Box:

I thought this is all there is,
But now I know I still need 5 more.
I want to upgrade from my hours of fates,
But I now feel weary after 64.