Thancred and Urianger's convo and how story tone changed from 1.0 to ARR (spoilers)

[Saikou]

Spoilers for 1.0, main scenario 1-50, and the part of main scenario 2.2 mentioned in the title. Ahem...

I have to admit I was amused. In 1.0, there were many more blunt examples of character flaws and harsh realities that gave it a "Game of Thrones" feel. Things have felt a bit more PG in ARR. Even if they were only playing Thancred's womanizing ways for the lulz, it was an amusing scene. I was reminded of the intro to Ul'dah 1.0 when you first see Thancred - he has a lady on each of his shoulders and was playing it real smooth... as things that were more pertinent to the player were happening in the foreground. If anything, that whole amusing conversation seemed to indicate that Thancred is back to his normal self after what must have been a traumatic experience being possessed by Lahabrea.

I'm happy to see things that gave Eorzea its feel in 1.0 that haven't changed with ARR. The Limsans still curse like sailors and many of them still aren't above killing and/or pillaging to get what they want (see ACN story). Limsa proved a rough place for anyone to make a start in, and Baderon did not mince words about that when aiding new adventurers. Ul'dah still has its unforgiving streets (gang activity seen in 1-15 experience), corrupt city guard (Brass Blades, "there are many whose wants exceed their wealth"), and the corrupt bureaucracy (The Syndicate and Lord Lolorito in particular). The presence of the dancing miqo's seem to indicate that making it as a merchant or guild employee is very difficult in Ul'dah - likely because of said corrupt bureaucracy - and that turning to less desirable occupations isn't that uncommon. Momodi is found to be one of the few generous souls in Ul'dah. And then there's Grid, which for how much more of a safe place it would seem, is extremely distrustful and discriminatory against outsiders, Keepers and Duskwights in particular (seen in both the ARC and LNC quests as well as Grid's 1-15 experience). The hostility in Grid towards outsiders seemed that it would make it difficult for anyone new to find a niche there, though the motherly Miounne of the adventurer's guild still stands out as exemplifying Gridanians at their best. The importance of many characters, like the Adventurer's Guildmasters that I have mentioned, has diminished in ARR, but all of their personality quirks remain.

The 1.0 characters and story established this tone of Eorzea not being the most inviting of places at all times and of the characters living there having their own flaws and vices. Much of this tone has fallen by the wayside, but some of it remains.

I guess a question to ask the rest of you loremongers is: Do you think the tone of the game has changed significantly from 1.0 to ARR and do you think this is a good or a bad thing?

Edit: Something that only occurred to me after the fact, has anyone noticed if Thancred's quest text differs depending on player character gender?

[NoloeTazier]

Snip~

I definitely feel everything has changed to be as you said more PG. While doing the Culinary quest the Sultana and others are able to make fun of Lord Lolorito and he gives off a wild exaggerated emote. Now the 2.2 storyline has brought Lord Lolorito back into the light as the harsh and cruel money grubber that he is. After all he owns both the Brass Blades and the Alacran (not sure if they technically exist anymore after the GLD quest line, I'm going to assume not) both which of have their own level of corruption. Lord Lolorito is conniving and would definitely fit into the Game of Thrones world, after all I still believe he had Niellefresne killed. So 2.2 for me is a bit of a game changer, players not associated with Ul'dah now see how it's truly run...though still a bit on the mild side I'd say. The Syndicate worship gil and I'm still waiting for the Sultana's life to be endangered.

[Anonymoose]

I was reminded of the intro to Ul'dah 1.0 when you first see Thancred - he has a lady on each of his shoulders and was playing it real smooth

If you look close, the ARR Echo womanizing Thancred and the 1.0 opening Echo womanizing Thancred are womanizing the same women. It's the same scene of the same time. It was a subtle hint to the 1.0 crowd what Thancred was actually doing there in 1562 in the first place.

Do you think the tone of the game has changed significantly from 1.0 to ARR and do you think this is a good or a bad thing?

I'm not really sure how to word it. In 1.0, it seemed like they made a decision at what level of maturity everything was going to be, and everything hovered right around that area. In ARR, it swings wildly back and forth between a little more friendly and a little more mature than 1.0. It seems to depend on the tone of the quest and the personalities of the people/zones we're in - which gives the area a lot of life and realism, but also throws me off-guard sometimes. I never know whether to expect a stern talking-to, slapstick-violence, or brutality; I never know whether to expect double entendre, heavy innuendo, or blatant reference. I wouldn't say we've gone PG, per se, but it is different.

Something that only occurred to me after the fact, has anyone noticed if Thancred's quest text differs depending on player character gender?

I think it's mostly the same aside from some key words (lad v. lass), but I've never checked. Should a Warrioress of Light feel respected or offended to be the only woman Thancred doesn't sit around quietly musing about his chances of pursuing? Or does he when she's not around?

[RolandDebreton]

It is common for television programs to have whole season where nearly every episode is written by a different person, yet the show maintains cohesion. Then you have examples such as The Wheel of Time series where the passing of one author and the mantle picked up by another shows a change in character despite efforts to maintain artistic similitude.

My guess is, even if many of the story masters are the same a change in direction would effect product. It is assuredly different. We got so shallow a taste of art direction that was truly 1.0 as it seems Yoshi commanded a vividly different direction right off the bat.

I must say I also cannot imagine how hard it must be to walk the line between telling an epic tale for the lore hound and entertaining the "goldfish" gamer that wants shiny, fast. Then, on top of that you have to translate and disseminate that vision into multiple languages and an even wider swath of cultures. I'd say given all these concepts they've kept continuity well. From an English-speaking standpoint, I imagine our loc team probably has a lot more to do with that then we might image as we watch Thancred flirt via Urianger's confonded responses, or hear Minfilia ponder deeper truths, or Yda ramble insipidly.Then again, how would you change if you survived the Apocalypse?

[AspectOfWinter]

I never played 1.0, and I have argued this to death already on the forums, but yes, I think it is quite apparent in ARR that the city states are anti-heroes at best, and arguable villains at worst.

Think about it:
-30 minutes in Uldah is usually enough to nip any "good guy, bad guy" discussions in the bud. The Syndicate-backed government is astonishingly corrupt, Brass Blades and merchants are often seen openly bullying civillians, and the Ascians are taking full advantage of the mess by stirring up Illumnati-like conspirations.
-Limsa Lominsa is the most friendly towards adventurers, but it's still a tough town of scoundrels with plenty of ulterior schemes hidden beneath its facade and the Kobolds have a valid point about how they violated the peace treaty with them.
-Gridania is the closest one to being more traditionally "good", but the Elezen (and even the Padjal at times) really do believe they're better than everyone else, and consequently find it hard to be nice to Adventurers and outsiders when they don't even respect them.
-Ishgard is much the same as Gridania, but in the mountains and crusading against the dragons rather than enemies of the forest.

On top of that, the Player Character takes a LOT of flak from NPCs...in fact, entire Class and Main Scenario storylines revolve around you being mistreated, threatened, and even manipulated by city state governments and questgivers alike. With this level of cynicism I would probably lose my faith in humanity really fast if I were Terra, Cloud, or Yuna.

[Naria]

I think it's mostly the same aside from some key words (lad v. lass), but I've never checked. Should a Warrioress of Light feel respected or offended to be the only woman Thancred doesn't sit around quietly musing about his chances of pursuing? Or does he when she's not around?

Well as Thancred remarks in this patch the player character has a horrible habit of sneaking up on people. With the whole "Slayer of Gods" reputation and how inscrutable our character is he might not feel its worth taking a chance at being poorly received. Or musing out loud if he thinks the "Warrioress of Light" is in the same region. Or he is near an Aetheryte.

[Grayve]

Well as Thancred remarks in this patch the player character has a horrible habit of sneaking up on people. With the whole "Slayer of Gods" reputation and how inscrutable our character is he might not feel its worth taking a chance at being poorly received. Or musing out loud if he thinks the "Warrioress of Light" is in the same region. Or he is near an Aetheryte.

I honestly felt like there was a little flirting going on in Horizon, when he commented about 'only getting a silent nod'.

[Anonymoose]

when he commented about 'only getting a silent nod'.