Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

[SublimeIbanez]

sorry, another post due to text limitations. Another issue is due to the RNG aspect, a lot of people WILL try to continually grind this because "maybe it'll be the next one" (hence the skinner-box effect). If people had a hard number to reach, it would be more casual and people would complain a bit less. Would still complain, but it would be less. This complaining would just be about how lazy of a quest design that is rather than an unfair mechanic.

[UBERHAXED]

There isn't really a problem with the mechanics, it's a response to unintended player behavior (i.e. buying relics) for the first relic quest. Yes you have brought it upon yourselves. Now they have made it so that no part of the quest it is possible to purchase services (such as making gear, materia, buying primal runs, etc) and so there is no gil buying incentive. In addition, because a person can no longer just "purchase" the relic when they have enough money, they've restored the meaning of the relic weapon, as a rare weapon that only a dedicated few will get, and only the really dedicated will have for multiple classes.

[Vahlnir]

There isn't really a problem with the mechanics, it's a response to unintended player behavior (i.e. buying relics) for the first relic quest. Yes you have brought it upon yourselves. Now they have made it so that no part of the quest it is possible to purchase services (such as making gear, materia, buying primal runs, etc) and so there is no gil buying incentive. In addition, because a person can no longer just "purchase" the relic when they have enough money, they've restored the meaning of the relic weapon, as a rare weapon that only a dedicated few will get, and only the really dedicated will have for multiple classes.

I couldn't agree more.

[Calyanare]

because a person can no longer just "purchase" the relic when they have enough money, they've restored the meaning of the relic weapon, as a rare weapon that only a dedicated few will get, and only the really dedicated will have for multiple classes.

There are much better ways to do this (prevent buying it, that is) than putting the upgrade behind a tedious unrewarding RNG wall. And honestly, it's not the dedicated who have it, it's the lucky.

FWIW, I didn't buy my Relic and I think selling carries for stuff like this should be a bannable offense, but of course the "dedicated" mostly disagree with me on that because they want to sell them...

[UBERHAXED]

There are much better ways to do this (prevent buying it, that is) than putting the upgrade behind a tedious unrewarding RNG wall. And honestly, it's not the dedicated who have it, it's the lucky.

FWIW, I didn't buy my Relic and I think selling carries for stuff like this should be a bannable offense, but of course the "dedicated" mostly disagree with me on that because they want to sell them...

You misunderstand. The quest isn't over when you get your 12 atma (in fact, the weapon is exactly the same as the zenith, barring the name). There is still the 13500 myth required (keep in mind that that the hard cap is 2000 myth, so you can't stock up prior) and the independent requirement for each book that you purchase. Even if you make it past the 12 atma phase, only the dedicated will get all of the myth required to make a full weapon.

[SublimeIbanez]

You misunderstand. The quest isn't over when you get your 12 atma (in fact, the weapon is exactly the same as the zenith, barring the name). There is still the 13500 myth required (keep in mind that that the hard cap is 2000 myth, so you can't stock up prior) and the independent requirement for each book that you purchase. Even if you make it past the 12 atma phase, only the dedicated will get all of the myth required to make a full weapon.

And that second half is what I wanted in a grind. Something that has progression that will take time. Something I can see myself completing ever so slowly, not the first part where everything is literally based on luck. And by luck, an FC member got all 12 in 4 hours today for his first day grinding.

[Calyanare]

You misunderstand. The quest isn't over when you get your 12 atma (in fact, the weapon is exactly the same as the zenith, barring the name). There is still the 13500 myth required (keep in mind that that the hard cap is 2000 myth, so you can't stock up prior) and the independent requirement for each book that you purchase. Even if you make it past the 12 atma phase, only the dedicated will get all of the myth required to make a full weapon.

Actually I'm well aware of that. I actually look forward to that part, if I ever get there (32 hours, 4/12) because it's something I know I can make progress on anytime I want rather than just grinding and praying.

Grinding myth 1500 at a time doesn't require "dedication". It doesn't even require any extra work beyond what you already do to cap soldiery, unless you want to complete it faster. It's not difficult, and is much less tedious than the idiotic FATE grinding (still a bit tedious, but at least I have the use of more than 3 skills). I am okay with stuff taking a long time, as long as there's a goal in sight and progress can be made incrementally whenever I choose to do so. I am not okay with my effort not being rewarded, or with lucky people being able to complete the same task with orders of magnitude less effort.

The only thing about the books that I worry about is the FATEs portion. The longer it takes me to get my Atma, the fewer people will still be grinding for theirs, and the harder it will be to get the rare FATEs that the book requires to pop.

[SublimeIbanez]

There are much better ways to do this (prevent buying it, that is) than putting the upgrade behind a tedious unrewarding RNG wall. And honestly, it's not the dedicated who have it, it's the lucky.

FWIW, I didn't buy my Relic and I think selling carries for stuff like this should be a bannable offense, but of course the "dedicated" mostly disagree with me on that because they want to sell them...

Selling instance clears is a different issue on itself, and arguments can be made on both sides (personally I don't like people that sell them, and people that succumb to the sellers are just as lazy as SE on this quest). On one side you can say they're selling something they can do, just like someone who can, and knows how to make high level crafted gear. But yeah, this might be a response to it, but it's a very lazy attempt at one.

[Roris]

Yeah the books themselves have a couple of time consuming quirks with lots of downtime in between progression starting from the 1500 myth per each book, then there's also stuff like having to kill 10 mobs of a type but there are only 3 of them in the entire area and they have longish respawn times, FATEs that take their sweet time to spawn, leves you have to cycle until the one you need pops up and then it turns out it's listed under GC leves, waiting for dungeon queues, even silly stuff like Fogfens being marked twice on the map. At least you're 100% guaranteed to make progress once you complete an objective though so that's good, it's just silly how they gated a time consuming quest under an even more time consuming RNG gate.

[Eight]

It would be kind of nice if they gave out myth tomes for doing fates. Even if its a small number like 1-2 per fate or on random fates it would be a nice added bonus. Dungeons and current speed runs would obviously be a much faster method of getting them but at least earning a few so that when you do gather the Atma pieces you have a nice little bit of myth to put towards your first book.