Feedback Regarding the Relic Upgrade Quest

[HellBringer]

I personally don't have (much) issue with the new relic quests. Sure I would prefer a more interesting version, but oh well. I personally like that kind item acquisition to just a random drop that your FC can carry you through.

I do, however, have a huge problem with the reward. If I'm going to put that kind of effort into something, I expect to have a comparable reward at the end of the tunnel. Spending 15 to 100 hours farming fates to get an identical weapon with a new skin isn't a reward. Now I can get +2 to a stat for killing 100 mobs, more fates, several dungeons, etc....and if I do that enough times I finally get the "upgraded" relic. So now after all that work, I have a weapon equivalent to the "weathered" weapons that everyone who hasn't wasted their time with this has had for a month.

IMO, the Atma weapons should be equivalent to the "weathered" weapons, and the Animus should be equivalent the "unweathered" weapons.

TLDR Keep the quests, make the weapons better

[Snarke]

18 Hours! 18 Hours to get a single piece! There aren't words to describe how disappointed I am in this quest.

Do other games do stuff like this? Sure, and that's why I liked this game more, because it wasn't some endless slog through ridiculously low drop chance RNG farming. Nothing in 2.0 or 2.1 were near this level of stupidity. I don't mind the thousands of myth you need for part 2 either, since at least you know what you are getting into. This however? A complete waste. I didn't do any challenging content and I got absolutely nothing for my trouble. Meanwhile some people get all their pieces in 4 or 5 hours.

[Fumijj_Gah]

18 Hours! 18 Hours to get a single piece!

It took 4 weeks full focused (night and day) just to see Argus spawns, Peacock Charm NM on FFXI and hope for the drop (2% drop rate). You all don't know how you are lucky to play this.
And I was lucky.
FFXI relic trials takes weeks of points farming. This is still nothing and still an easy way to obtain a relic upgrade. I am still on my point, relic must be for 50-100 players per server, max. Or it's not relic but a common weapon. Well, they changed name now to Zodiac, deal.

[Sunarie]

It took 4 weeks full focused (night and day) just to see Argus spawns, Peacock Charm NM on FFXI and hope for the drop (2% drop rate). You all don't know how you are lucky to play this.
And I was lucky.
FFXI relic trials takes weeks of points farming. This is still nothing and still an easy way to obtain a relic upgrade. I am still on my point, relic must be for 50-100 players per server, max. Or it's not relic but a common weapon. Well, they changed name now to Zodiac, deal.

Just because one game has a worse system doesn't make this system good. I honestly don't get that argument. If the only good thing you have to say about something, your only defense is, "well it's not as bad as this other thing".. then you have a crappy system.

It's also likely going to take people a lot more than four weeks to do the second step of the quest (13,500 myth tomes on top of a grind). So.. I'm not even sure time wise when you combine the drop rates some people are experiencing (which seems to also be around 2% based on what I'm seeing reported on various sites) plus the grind afterwards... it would be shorter than your FFXI grind.

I think you're also failing to understand what people are complaining about. I'll give you a hint, it's not the time it takes to get the weapon. It has to do with having the chance to put very, very long hours into something and have absolutely no sort of progress to show for it.

[Fumijj_Gah]

Just because one game has a worse system doesn't make this system good.

You misunderstood me sir., for me FFXI one is still the best system: I really don't want to see relics on everyone hands. Relic could be an elite weapon for elite players.
The world elite (both for skill or extreme/crazy grind) is disappeared in this game, maybe just primals weapons have some points.

[Mithent]

You misunderstood me sir., for me FFXI one is still the best system: I really don't want to see relics on everyone hands. Relic could be an elite weapon for elite players.
The world elite (both for skill or extreme/crazy grind) is disappeared in this game, maybe just primals weapons have some points.

I don't consider spending many hours grinding trivially easy content until you get lucky with the RNG to be particularly elite, though - that's just either getting lucky or having an awful lot of time to waste. It's the Allagan weapons which impressed me when I started to see them, because people who had them had beaten the hardest content the game has to offe, not just that they invested in a time sink.

[Illya]

You misunderstood me sir., for me FFXI one is still the best system: I really don't want to see relics on everyone hands. Relic could be an elite weapon for elite players.
The world elite (both for skill or extreme/crazy grind) is disappeared in this game, maybe just primals weapons have some points.

I guess my definition of 'elite' is different than yours. Those people who have already downed T6 and T7, they are elite. They are good at games, good at coordination in groups, good at figuring out mechanics, and good at executing strategies. That's elite.

Grinding mindlessly on easy content for hundreds of hours isn't elite. That's no-life.

FFXI wasn't hardcore. It was timecore.

[Gormogon]

You misunderstood me sir., for me FFXI one is still the best system: I really don't want to see relics on everyone hands. Relic could be an elite weapon for elite players.
The world elite (both for skill or extreme/crazy grind) is disappeared in this game, maybe just primals weapons have some points.

I've been doing MMO's for over 10 years and anything involving RNG is a horrible system for the most obvious of reasons.

I've learned to live with it but there is better alternatives to test people's "skill" and "dedication".

As for "elitism" well that's not really skilled people but more of a group of people bragging about how they get by as they look down on others. Since they aren't really the ones downing the end game content that's for sure. Yet the truly skilled, the ones that truly deserve recognition, they wont be recognized for it and they aren't even asking for it. Yet the group of people that down it way later than them and use a guide because they can't figure out the phase mechanics are gonna be the ones bragging and looking down on those that haven't down content? That's not being elite nor having skill that's just plain pettiness.

I'd rather see people have an equal advantage of downing content and being able to down it in the long run, first by those truly skilled then later by those willing to invest time and dedication, than the toxic environment of elitism you're defending.

[Sunarie]

You misunderstood me sir., for me FFXI one is still the best system: I really don't want to see relics on everyone hands. Relic could be an elite weapon for elite players.
The world elite (both for skill or extreme/crazy grind) is disappeared in this game, maybe just primals weapons have some points.

I'm not really misunderstanding much of anything. You said we were lucky because the time it took in FFXI was longer (though you said it in more words), and that the RNG was the same/worse there. Lucky is not a word you use in the way that you did without meaning one system is worse than the other. "You're lucky you guys don't have the superior relic grinding system of FFXI" doesn't make any sense. It only makes sense if you're referring to the relic system of FFXI as inferior to FFXIV's, because that's the only way we'd be lucky we didn't have it.

There is next to no one complaining about grinding in and of itself, and next to no one complaining about time investment (which I pointed out in my last post). People are more than happy to grind, they just want visible progress. We also have very different definitions of elite. Relics are not elite weapons, they are sub par to other end game alternatives, with the relics requiring much more time invested. They also are not for elite players at this point. They are for the players who can tolerate running around extremely low level areas and mashing 1-2 buttons. And I'm sorry, but just because Joe Smith got lucky and got his Atmas within 12 hours and after 12 hours I only have 3 does not make Joe Smith anymore elite than I am.

Next to no one is complaining because it's a grind. They are complaining because one person can get an Atma in 15 minutes and another can spend 24 hours and not see one.

[SleepyBee]

Next to no one is complaining because it's a grind. They are complaining because one person can get an Atma in 15 minutes and another can spend 24 hours and not see one.

Exactly this for me. For the past 24 hours I've been grinding it out like nobody's business just to get my next atma. At least one person in my FC got their entire weapon in less time than that. Sure I do other things in-game: beastmen quests, new dungeons etc. But I want this weapon and with my horrible luck and current experience grinding for this, I have to put in 10x the time/effort someone else does to get the same thing.