PLD or MRD?

[Kitru]

1. warrior tank Butcher's Block rotation
2. warrior DPS Storm's Path/Storm's Eye rotation
3. paladin Rage of Halone rotation

None of those is the top WAR DPS rotation. BB>SE is the top damage rotation. If you're doing it right, every rotation except for BB spam is going to do more damage than PLD as well.

I can record it if you really don't believe. This is completely removing gear from the analysis as well because they both have same conceptual gear.

And I've done tests with parsers as well as done the math on potency per GCD numerous times. WAR, when properly played, does more damage. The only way PLD does better is if the WAR is doing it wrong (which is what you're doing, looks like). Because it's basically impossible to screw up a PLD, people that don't know what they're doing are going to see better damage on a PLD, but that doesn't mean that PLD does more damage than a WAR.

It has nothing to do with the number of mitigation abilities, it is the total amount of damage mitigated. If I gave you 30 abilities that mitigate 1% does that make it better than vengence because you have 30 of them. Warriors have increased HP and healing for a reason, they can't mitigate damage like a paladin with a shield.

First off, you're the one that brought up the number. You specifically said that PLD had "more mitigation skills" which is explicitly wrong as I pointed out. Secondly, "mitigation" is not the same thing as "damage reduction" even if the two terms are often conflated by the uneducated. Increased healing received *is* mitigation because it means that you need less healing to offset the same amount of incoming damage so it's not even true to say that PLD has more damage mitigation overall.

[Set]

None of those is the top WAR DPS rotation. BB>SE is the top damage rotation. If you're doing it right, every rotation except for BB spam is going to do more damage than PLD as well.

so you do Butcher's Block -> Storm's Eye, you must do horrible damage then read the abilities. You completely ignore maim for damage buff and have 2 abilities that are not even in rotation nerfing the damage on them.

Butcher's Block
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Additional Effect: Increased enmity.
Combo Action: Skull Sunder, Combo Potency: 280.

Storm's Eye
Delivers an attack with a potency of 100.
Combo Action: Maim, Combo Potency: 270
Combo Bonus: Decreases target's slashing resistance by 10% and HP recovery via curing magic by 50% for 15s.
Grants Wrath when used with Defiance for 30s.

So here are the options on rotations and your BB->SE doesn't fill anyone of them
1) Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder
2) Heavy Swing > Maim
3) Maim > Storm's Path
4) Maim > Storm's Eye
5) Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block
6) Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Path
7) Heavy Swing > Maim > Storm's Eye
8) Heavy Swing > Skull Sunder > Butcher's Block

And I've done tests with parsers as well as done the math on potency per GCD numerous times. WAR, when properly played, does more damage. The only way PLD does better is if the WAR is doing it wrong (which is what you're doing, looks like). Because it's basically impossible to screw up a PLD, people that don't know what they're doing are going to see better damage on a PLD, but that doesn't mean that PLD does more damage than a WAR.

So You ran the math and have parsers, lets see them. I can say I wrote a mod that screen scrapes them both and I found PLD do 500 more DPS than warrior. Doesn't mean it is true just means I can type words too. Like I said I don't need to argue it you can just find out for yourself using GCD counting on killing mobs. I explained my methods how about you explain yours. I am open to being proven wrong but proven is the key word I am not taking your word for it.

Also from your Butcher's Block -> Storm's Eye explanation above it is obvious you don't know basic rotations.

First off, you're the one that brought up the number. You specifically said that PLD had "more mitigation skills" which is explicitly wrong as I pointed out. Secondly, "mitigation" is not the same thing as "damage reduction" even if the two terms are often conflated by the uneducated. Increased healing received *is* mitigation because it means that you need less healing to offset the same amount of incoming damage so it's not even true to say that PLD has more damage mitigation overall.

No I said "PLD has a higher mitigation than warrior but less HP and no healing buff" so before you quote someone make sure your quote is accurate.

[Set]

And Kitru please point to your post here http://tinyurl.com/l76sdsd so I can completely annihilate your failure to compensate for a ton of things.

See the thing you lack is empirical data, all of your data is theoretical and ephemeral.

[Kitru]

And Kitru please point to your post here http://tinyurl.com/l76sdsd so I can completely annihilate your failure to compensate for a ton of things.

I didn't point to it because it's old, and I haven't bothered updating it in 4 months. If I wanted to show you my math, I would reference these two posts. As to it being purely theoretical and ephemeral, I would like to point out that I've at least provided something other than anecdotal evidence involving laughably unreliable measurement.

Also, I welcome people trying to poke holes in my math. It's always funny because there's yet to be someone who didn't try to do it and just turned out to be even more wrong.

[Set]

empirical data in true testing scenario with parser. http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxiv/t...ata-and-parser

TLDR
Warrior does more in the long run
Paladin can do more in the first rotation or 2

The outliers are minimal and the results are fairly accurate.

you are correct on the result not sure on the calculations because you are still missing a lot of things in the calculations you posted and I am going to stop messing with this and go back to playing the game.

[Kitru]

so you do Butcher's Block -> Storm's Eye, you must do horrible damage then read the abilities. You completely ignore maim for damage buff and have 2 abilities that are not even in rotation nerfing the damage on them.

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? BB>SE refers to using the relevant combos in that order. Hell, you even use a similar model when you described your method. Being able to copy-paste ability descriptions doesn't really mean anything when you're incapable of actually understanding what's being discussed.

If you want simple evidence, just do the math for the explicit potency/GCD that WAR and PLD are each capable of. Unless you want to believe that PLD somehow gets more out of each individual point of potency than WAR does, you're doing it wrong. Hell, I seriously doubt that you're actually counting GCDs properly if that's really what you're doing over long periods of time.

No I said "PLD has a higher mitigation than warrior but less HP and no healing buff" so before you quote someone make sure your quote is accurate.

The person I was quoting that you were explicitly responding to explicitly said "more mitigation skills". If you're going to get anal retentive about quoting, at least go back and read the quotes as they're written. The person I was quoting was explicitly wrong about the number of mitigation skills. Even if the number doesn't have much bearing upon performance (and, yes, I know it doesn't; average and burst performance over time are what matter), the person was still explicitly wrong in their statement, and it's also why I described the general difference between the WAR and PLD CD suites while pointing out that they perform equally well over time.

[Set]

Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it? BB>SE refers to using the relevant combos in that order. Hell, you even use a similar model when you described your method. Being able to copy-paste ability descriptions doesn't really mean anything when you're incapable of actually understanding what's being discussed.

reading comprehension has nothing to do with interpreting someones points without a full explanation. Granted in this case it is correct I should have assumed this combo.
Also don't try to be a tool and attempt to degrade me or I will simply drive you idiocy into the ground. I am simply trying to prove a point and have a conversation and not try to be a child about it.

If you want simple evidence, just do the math for the explicit potency/GCD that WAR and PLD are each capable of. Unless you want to believe that PLD somehow gets more out of each individual point of potency than WAR does, you're doing it wrong. Hell, I seriously doubt that you're actually counting GCDs properly if that's really what you're doing over long periods of time.

I will do what you failed to and build empirical data instead of screwing with theory craft and completely screwing up everything relative to mechanics. I should have it posted tonight.

The person I was quoting that you were explicitly responding to explicitly said "more mitigation skills". If you're going to get anal retentive about quoting, at least go back and read the quotes as they're written. The person I was quoting was explicitly wrong about the number of mitigation skills. Even if the number doesn't have much bearing upon performance (and, yes, I know it doesn't; average and burst performance over time are what matter), the person was still explicitly wrong in their statement, and it's also why I described the general difference between the WAR and PLD CD suites while pointing out that they perform equally well over time.

1. I was explicitly responding to you
2. What makes you think I am taking what others said over what I said. 'You specifically said that PLD had "more mitigation skills" which is explicitly wrong as I pointed out' again no I didn't.
3. This is completely irrelevant and pointless if you are simply counting the number of defensive abilities. My point still stands PLD has higher mitigation than WAR which is offset by warrior higher HP and healing to a fairly equal amount.