Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[Speeral]

Oh, so if BIS was 110 and you were able to craft 100 and meld it, you're saying you wouldn't? You'd use tome items instead?

Riiiiiggghht. You'd buy the mats, regardless of price, and be wearing full crafted i100 by the end of the week.

ok to play devils advocate because you clearly aren't reading what crafters are posting anyways... So what if I did what did that do? I have to learn the content some way and some how anyways. Its a character in a game world which even if you minus out crafting still has 2 ways to get highest tier gear end of the day what does it matter, what does it break?

This is an online multiplayer game, end of the day people will find like minded people to play with who play at their pace anyways.

Some people play because they like to collect fictional money...
some play to explore...
long story short people have different playstyles what does it even matter how some one geared out for a fight? I think it matters more that they can actually play their role effectively, as opposed to the colour of the sprites.

[Versiroth]

Ok, what if they made it to where you could craft ilvl 100 items, but it required a special skill that had a 7 day reset timer. So, you could craft one single piece of ilvl 100 gear per week. Would you be ok with that?

[Susanoh]

That's only true to a point. In any supply/production chain, the last stop before the end-user has the greatest impact on price and, in many cases, the greatest amount of discretion if they are willing to take the steps necessary to ensure relative competitive freedom.

Anyone who takes the steps necessary can have an impact on the market in this game. Every group is just players putting various amounts of time into their activity of choice. In the same way that crafters could stop buying tome materials to force prices down, people could simply choose not to buy crafted gear to drive the prices down.

I've spent plenty of time on crafting in this game, but also farming dungeons and tomes, and it's absolutely no surprise to me why things worked out the way they did initially. Crafted gear was obscenely expensive to produce compared to darklight, and required the same resource as darklight. Requiring over 2,000 philosophy items for a single piece of crafted gear when darklight was raining from the sky with next to no effort involved is what caused the situation to become what it was. This isn't a case of "these guys are lazy" or "those guys should have sold cheaper materials," people did what they did because the game was designed in such a way that it was bound to happen from the beginning.

[Speeral]

Ok, what if they made it to where you could craft ilvl 100 items, but it required a special skill that had a 7 day reset timer. So, you could craft one single piece of ilvl 100 gear per week. Would you be ok with that?

Do I have a choice if it was there? Like when Mining do I have a choice when unspoiled nodes drop. Its better to take the one piece of promised gear as opposed one chance a week at RNGesus if you mean allagan equivalent gear. Again this is where your argument falls apart crafters didn't ask to make 110 gear. 90 or 100 is sufficient to help be better equipped for the higher tiers of coil, heck let's stick to 90 with overmeld. Some people will be geared out in 5 weeks others in 6 months if RNG is not on their side. So being able to progress in coil I will use both money I have to be in there yes Tomes and gil. If someone spent hours farming gil like some tomes I don't see the problem, its not like gil is hard to come by anyways. you make hundreds of thousands a week doing just CT for material and tome mats, and not craft a single thing. It in a sense is the same progression until you hit the lockout wall anyways.

[Versiroth]

Do I have a choice if it was there? Like when Mining do I have a choice when unspoiled nodes drop. Its better to take the one piece of promised gear as opposed one chance a week at RNGesus if you mean allagan equivalent gear. Again this is where your argument falls apart crafters didn't ask to make 110 gear. 90 or 100 is sufficient to help be better equipped for the higher tiers of coil, heck let's stick to 90 with overmeld.

Who said 110? You already get ilvl 90 gear, but others in this thread act like it isn't good enough. I'm saying that you have one shot per week to make a piece of ilvl 100 gear. If you're successful, you have that piece of gear and you can do with it what you want. Wear it, sell it, etc. If your synth fails, you lose the chance. You guys say you want other ways to get gear, but this wouldn't be good enough either would it? having to wait a week for a new piece (like tome grinders) would be too much wait time? And actually, tome grinders normally have to wait 1 week+ due to gear costing more than 450 tomes per piece.

My point is, why should you get to make a piece of gear in a a minute when it takes me over a week to grind out enough tomes to buy the equivalent? Did you guys even consider how unfair that would be for non-crafters? Let me guess, it is fair because they could pay you hald a million gil and buy yours instead?

[Sunarie]

Ok, what if they made it to where you could craft ilvl 100 items, but it required a special skill that had a 7 day reset timer. So, you could craft one single piece of ilvl 100 gear per week. Would you be ok with that?

I would be fine with that, I would also be fine with an item dropping from a raid or dungeon that's needed to craft an item and that thing being untradeable.

[TheUltimate3]

Ok, what if they made it to where you could craft ilvl 100 items, but it required a special skill that had a 7 day reset timer. So, you could craft one single piece of ilvl 100 gear per week. Would you be ok with that?

Would that item require materials to make it? Stupid question I know, but it matters.

[SchalaZeal]

I would be fine with that, I would also be fine with an item dropping from a raid or dungeon that's needed to craft an item and that thing being untradeable.

If the item drops from new-coil (T6-9) we effectively have a one-week-lockout item (provided you can even go T6 right off, not everyone will). It could also be bought with Soldiery tomes and I'd be fine with it. And make it untradable. Possibly crafted in something also untradable, at i100. Melding it would no doubt cost millions if its anything like melding Vanya is (100k+ materias with 30% chance for your 3rd slot, 25% for the 4th and 15% for the 5th - of course you also pay the fails).

[Sunarie]

If the item drops from new-coil (T6-9) we effectively have a one-week-lockout item (provided you can even go T6 right off, not everyone will). It could also be bought with Soldiery tomes and I'd be fine with it. *snip cause limit*

Either way.. someone suggested earlier (it may have ever been you) a system similar to what we have for melding. Where you can commission someone to make something for you using mats in your inventory. Those mats could certainly be attained either by tome buying or raiding, and wouldn't be tradeable.. so the person getting it would -have- to have done the content. There are solutions that could work, and obviously not everything is perfect.. but there are a few with fingers in their ears that just seem to hate crafting in general.

[Susanoh]

Because the game should be about the skill in running *all* content, not the skill in hitting the "Make HQ Shiny" button in front of repair vendor or the skill in farming endlessly to pay the all-but-guaranteed-to-be-obscene price demands of someone who does.

This argument boils down to crafters not wanting to have to put the time in to earn next-to-BiS gear in order to challenge end-game. You don't want to run the content, you just want to spam the crafting buttons to shortcut yourself into that gear and then get paid to do it thereafter. Lazy.

By the way, just noticed this, and this is just a flat out false statement. I know many people who'd love to put the time in to progress, which the addition of more (although certainly not all, since that would just tip the scales in the opposite direction) progression based crafted equipment could provide. Currently players can log in one day a week, run one end game instance, and spam some easy dungeons and have their progression toward the highest level of equipment done for the entire week in no time at all. With a mix of equipment that could be obtained through effort and equipment that could be obtained through lockouts, those people who want to put in the extra time would be able to, while the "lazy" people who just want to get equipment without putting in the time and effort could just come for the weekly lockouts as they currently already can.