Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[Kallera]

[QUOTE=Versiroth;1974410][QUOTE=Speeral;1974398]

snip

You're kidding... right? Most people in PF groups already ask for people to out level the duty by upwards of 10 ilvls. Heck, I see Titan HM groups asking for ilvl 75+ all the time. You really think that a turn 9 group won't care if you haven't melded all of your Materia slots?

As someone who played WOW for over 5 years, trust me... all adding things like that to end game does is give elitists one more reason to exclude people from content.

If some PF parties are already excluding you, and will continue to exclude you with or without crafter involvement, then it is not us that is the problem. So why are we being blamed? Curtailing crafting gameplay will not lower pf expectations , or make people not be jerks.

Is it our fault tommorrow's maintenance happens in the day too?

[Versiroth]

If some PF parties are already excluding you, and will continue to exclude you with or without crafter involvement, then it is not us that is the problem. So why are we being blamed? Curtailing crafting gameplay will not lower pf expectations , or make people not be jerks.

So, because people already do it, we should add in additional reasons? All so crafters can make gil? Sorry, but you making gil isn't worth gating content even more than it already is. What you're suggesting would make the community worse all to make crafters happy. Not a good trade off.

[Kamahil]

Crafters don't need more ways to make money. They have enough ways. Why make this a buy gear to win game?

[Speeral]

[QUOTE=Versiroth;1974410][QUOTE=Speeral;1974398]

snip

You're kidding... right? Most people in PF groups already ask for people to out level the duty by upwards of 10 ilvls. Heck, I see Titan HM groups asking for ilvl 75+ all the time. You really think that a turn 9 group won't care if you haven't melded all of your Materia slots?

As someone who played WOW for over 5 years, trust me... all adding things like that to end game does is give elitists one more reason to exclude people from content.

nope dead serious never had an issue with fc or in pf. I also always have the option to make own groups or df. Also say t5 as an example I have been trying since i78 now my highest is 85 on blm. So yeah...

[Speeral]

Crafters don't need more ways to make money. They have enough ways. Why make this a buy gear to win game?

Who asked for that... crafter are asking to be included, we already make money off lazy people in one way or another.. Plus non crafters have ways to make money surprise they also have to enter the market somehow...

to win this game you need to have cursery understanding of mechanics.. not get 90k'd, and just play it. Nothing here is ridiculously hard.

Plus this is an MMO its a no win game until the servers one day shut down...

[Versiroth]

[QUOTE=Speeral;1974471][QUOTE=Versiroth;1974410]

nope dead serious never had an issue with fc or in pf. I also always have the option to make own groups or df. Also say t5 as an example I have been trying since i78 now my highest is 85 on blm. So yeah...

The point still stands. Adding things like this to end game does nothing to help the community or game as a whole. There are plenty of ways to make crafters relevant. Such as giving them exclusive rights to certain gear used for glamours. Or maybe mounts and minions of some sort. Those are things that you could make money from that doesn't impact the meat and potatoes of the game. But, I'm highly against inserting mandatory crafting into end game content... for reasons I've already stated.

Who asked for that... crafter are asking to be included.

You are included. i90 gear just isn't good enough for you it seems.

[Sunarie]

So, because people already do it, we should add in additional reasons? All so crafters can make gil? Sorry, but you making gil isn't worth gating content even more than it already is. What you're suggesting would make the community worse all to make crafters happy. Not a good trade off.

How is providing an alternative gear source further gating anything off? If anything it's adding more players to the mix. This is not BiS stuff we're talking here.. heck, even knowing that fully melded crafted gear is -better- than DL in a lot of cases, groups don't require the crafted gear. You're throwing up an argument about something that isn't going to happen.

If crafted gear is equivalent to what you can buy with tomes it only provides another option. Players are in no way forced to buy it anymore than players were forced to buy crafted gear instead of DL gear back when crafted gear actually sold with any consistency. Heck, now crafted gear is actually really cheap (the 2-star stuff).. and people still just jump straight to tome gear, even though the crafted stuff can be better melded. The only way people would end up forced to buy it is if it was significantly better than tome gear (which I don't see anyone asking for, most aren't even asking for BiS and out of those that are, most don't want to sell the BiS stuff on the market, they want it to be bound somehow).

I don't get yelled at cause I'm wearing myth earrings when the allagan ones are technically BiS. As long as I meet accuracy requirements to hit the things I'm tanking people don't really care (save for maybe Turn 4 and 5, and even then I've not once had anyone question me about gear choices regardless of which ilvl 90 things I swap around). The ilvl excuse for excluding already exists. Crafted items are not going to make that problem worse.

It doesn't really sound like you're interested in any semblance of balance in end game type stuff with the economy, that also provides more options. It more sounds like you don't like the idea of people having gil.

[Akiva_Ninazu]

So, because people already do it, we should add in additional reasons? All so crafters can make gil? Sorry, but you making gil isn't worth gating content even more than it already is. What you're suggesting would make the community worse all to make crafters happy. Not a good trade off.

Agreed. It's almost impossible to envision a scenario where any sort of crafted gear w/ materia in end-game wouldn't end up preferred. BiS list for some classes included i80 in 2.1! How on earth would melded 100/110 *not* be BiS for some pieces if crafting went that high? And once you've done that, you've successfully put a "must buy crafter gear and materia" gate in front of content, which penalizes the people looking to do more than hit a macro in town 500 times a night.

[Speeral]

[QUOTE=Versiroth;1974493][QUOTE=Speeral;1974471]

The point still stands. Adding things like this to end game does nothing to help the community or game as a whole. There are plenty of ways to make crafters relevant. Such as giving them exclusive rights to certain gear used for glamours. Or maybe mounts and minions of some sort. Those are things that you could make money from that doesn't impact the meat and potatoes of the game. But, I'm highly against inserting mandatory crafting into end game content... for reasons I've already stated.



You are included. i90 gear just isn't good enough for you it seems.

Where and when was it ever stated in any MMO crafting at any level was mandatory? As far as anything so far in this game nothing has been so hard it can be won or only have a chance at winning in being best in slot gear wise. Heck I'll go older than WoW during times gear sets could take 1-3 years to build, but content was still doable in games the everquest, ffxi, and a few others.

No one is asking for that but having horizontal gear progression is not bad, it gives players choice anyways. As far as "elitists" building i90 parties to take on Garuda extreme just guarantee a win is as fruitless as going completely under geared into the fight, if the players doesn't know the mechanics... Your point still does not stand because of the design of this game for the most part was built to accessible from level 1-T5 and its the player base that keeps people out of content.

[Versiroth]

Snip

You will be able to craft i90 gear. Which is the equivalent of Myth or BC 1-5. That's not good enough? You really think you should be able to craft 100 gear? Which will be the ilvl of Soldiery tome gear? How can you not see the problem with that? So, I can grind for two weeks for 1 piece of soldiery gear or I can RMT my way into a full set of i100 crafted, meld it and be done with everything but BC 6-9! Seriously.... it has nothing to do with you "having gil". It's the fact that you don't seem to care if your ability to make gil will completely destroy the game.