Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[Versiroth]

It does. It's called Culinary. Otherwise, no thanks. I hated that in WOW, you were forced to gem/enchant all of your gear to be accepted into groups. In this game, people with all 50's have too many sets of armor to be forced to spend all of their gil on materia, etc for a very small (but mandatory) stat boost.

[Kallera]

It does. It's called Culinary. Otherwise, no thanks. I hated that in WOW, you were forced to gem/enchant all of your gear to be accepted into groups. In this game, people with all 50's have too many sets of armor to be forced to spend all of their gil on materia, etc for a very small (but mandatory) stat boost.

But you are not actually getting rid of the practice. Now people are not inviting you because you haven't got the relic +1, break blade or a certain ilvl.

All you have done is change the excuse.

And expensive doesn't always mean greedy. People cannot fully control how many dice rolls it took to get the items, the materia, the HQ, the melds, and a selling price that will get them a buyer in a timely fashion.

Players didn't like the low chance of getting certain gear in prior MMOs, now some are barred from ingenuity of making their own gear altogether, while endgame is funnelled into one playstyle one brand of content. How is that not greed and selfishness? How can one make a sense of community, much less a economy, out of so many restrictions?

[Versiroth]

But you are not actually getting rid of the practice. Now people are not inviting you because you haven't got the relic +1, break blade or a certain ilvl.

All you have done is change the excuse.

And expensive doesn't always mean greedy. People cannot fully control how many dice rolls it took to get the items, the materia, the HQ, the melds, and a selling price that will get them a buyer in a timely fashion.

Players didn't like the low chance of getting certain gear in prior MMOs, now some are barred from ingenuity of making their own gear altogether, while endgame is funnelled into one playstyle one brand of content. How is that not greed and selfishness? How can one make a sense of community, much less a economy, out of so many restrictions?

Having to work for a Relic + 1 is completely different than having to pay hundreds of thousands of gil for 3-5 pieces of Materia to fill out every slot in every piece of armor you have. Also, Community =/= you making tons of gil off other players. The fact is, making top level gear would ruin the game. You could RMT your way to the top without working for it at all (and people WOULD do this). Also, adding Materia or other systems like Materia to end game would do nothing but cause more people to be excluded from content. And like with top level crafted gear, it would also help RMT to thrive even more as people would just pay real money to avoid the then mandatory gil grind.

[TheUltimate3]

Having to work for a Relic + 1 is completely different than having to pay hundreds of thousands of gil for 3-5 pieces of Materia to fill out every slot in every piece of armor you have. Also, Community =/= you making tons of gil off other players. The fact is, making top level gear would ruin the game. You could RMT your way to the top without working for it at all (and people WOULD do this). Also, adding Materia or other systems like Materia to end game would do nothing but cause more people to be excluded from content. And like with top level crafted gear, it would also help RMT to thrive even more as people would just pay real money to avoid the then mandatory gil grind.

I could RMT my way to get a lot of gil and then spend that gil on a merc FC to carry me through end game. Result: I still paid my way to the top.

People aren't even asking to make top end stuff, they just want the stuff they can make to actual matter and be relevant.

[Versiroth]

I could RMT my way to get a lot of gil and then spend that gil on a merc FC to carry me through end game. Result: I still paid my way to the top.

People aren't even asking to make top end stuff, they just want the stuff they can make to actual matter and be relevant.

You could pay for 10 runs of Coil (10 weeks) and never get a single drop. Heck, I've only gotten one piece of tank loot in the last 5 weeks doing Coil. There's the difference right there. If you could craft 110 gear, then I could RMT the gil, pay you, and then... I don't know... quit? I mean, I already have the best gear in the game.

As is, they give you entry level crafting gear (i70 before and soon to be i90), which is good enough. Your craftable gear gives people options. Stop charging 3 to 400K (what ilvl 70 was before 2.1) per piece and maybe more people will take your option over grinding myth for alts.

[Lord_Zlatan]

You could pay for 10 runs of Coil (10 weeks) and never get a single drop. Heck, I've only gotten one piece of tank loot in the last 5 weeks doing Coil. There's the difference right there. If you could craft 110 gear, then I could RMT the gil, pay you, and then... I don't know... quit? I mean, I already have the best gear in the game.

As is, they give you entry level crafting gear (i70 before and soon to be i90), which is good enough. Your craftable gear gives people options. Stop charging 3 to 400K (what ilvl 70 was before 2.1) per piece and maybe more people will take your option over grinding myth for alts.

I would buy the gear for sure, but it goes beyond that. People like to craft... just because. Furthermore, people would do it if there was a point to the materia system. at this point, crafted gear = gear with materia. The materia is terrible, so no one wants to invest in a +1 stat when it will most likely be useless.

[TheUltimate3]

-snip-

There is no difference. I could pay for 10 weeks, get nothing, then simply pay for more. At the end of the day, I could still RMT my way to the top, regardless of how long it takes.

And when you end up with a market where items made from items that cost myth costs an arm and a leg, the end product has to also cost an arm and a leg.

Though this obviously gets into the finer points of economics which you have no interest in so arguing that point is moot. But it does bring back my question: if the items for crafting can easily, and I mean mindnumbingly so, replaced by even the lowest tier of dungeon gear, then why have crafting at all?

I really want to know a "anti-crafters" opinion on that.

EDIT: And I'm aware that they want to revamp the Materia system, to make it far more useful and I'm aware that could change things greatly. I am also aware that people would rather it not be like WoW where things got really "You must enchant this or no invites ever!".

[Versiroth]

snip

So, buying your way to the top in 10+ weeks is the same as doing so in a couple hours? The fact is, crafters will be able to make i90 equipment. The only other way to obtain i90 equipment is to spam BC and fight range or grind out myth. So, you are one of three different options. How is that not relevant to end game? Just because you're only an option, instead of being the only source doesn't mean you aren't relevant. And even then, with Materia, your gear could actually end up being better than the BC/Myth gear. Which would mean the only gear better would be Soldiery tome gear and BC2. Again I ask... how are you not relevant in end game?

Honestly... is Myth not relevant either because people can simply spam BC over and over? Just because you're not getting rich and selling your pieces faster than you can make them doesn't mean that some people won't find them useful.