Crafting Needs a Place in Endgame Raiding

[Xatsh]

What is the point of crafting gear when you can get better gear with little to no effort and the game is made so you can easily skip a tier of gear to begin with?

better question is why does SE keep wasting time developing crafting and gathering stuff when they keep insisting they want it to be pointless.

Anyone saying crafting is fine as is has blinders on. The current collasped/near dead economy and the fact this is the only game doing it this way in the whole mmo market... should be a sign something is wrong. The crafting in this game is as good of an idea as surplus xp was in 1.0

[Zumi]

Anyone saying crafting is fine as is has blinders on. The current collasped/near dead economy and the fact this is the only game doing it this way in the whole mmo market... should be a sign something is wrong. The crafting in this game is as good of an idea as surplus xp was in 1.0

I made around 30m crafting since the game came out. It just takes time and effort, keeping your retainers full and stocked with items you made. If you don't spend the time to see what items sell and keep your retainers market board full then you won't make money.

Not everyone in the game does coil or even dungeons and certain 2 star items sell a lot, and food and mega potions, base relics were also good sellers. Crafting is fine the way it is if you craft stuff you will make gil simple as that. If your looking for I made something and want to sell it for 10m or 20m like in FFXI you won't find that here. Its selling a bunch of lower priced items that makes money.

[Galactimus]

Anyone saying crafting is fine as is has blinders on.

I don't know about low level crafting these days but end-game crafting IS fine. Anyone saying otherwise simply doesn't research the market enough or try hard enough. From 2.0 to 2.1 I crafted and sold a few hundred one star recipes (mostly HQ Crafter Gear) and made 6 mil. From 2.1 until now I crafted at least 2,000 two star equipment pieces and made 50 mil. Forty items up for sale non-stop. 20-30 pieces selling every day. Some days items sold so fast that I simply couldn't keep up which had me going in loops for 8 hours straight.

There was a massive demand for end game crafted gear non-stop for three months. It's finally died down now due to the mention of i90 Crafted Gear but the crafter economy is the complete opposite of dead on Excalibur. I didn't even have a legacy character head start either.

[OrganizationXIll]

I don't know about low level crafting these days but end-game crafting IS fine. Anyone saying otherwise simply doesn't research the market enough or try hard enough. From 2.0 to 2.1 I crafted and sold a few hundred one star recipes (mostly HQ Crafter Gear) and made 6 mil. From 2.1 until now I crafted at least 2,000 two star equipment pieces and made 50 mil. Forty items up for sale non-stop. 20-30 pieces selling every day. Some days items sold so fast that I simply couldn't keep up which had me going in loops for 8 hours straight.

There was a massive demand for end game crafted gear non-stop for three months. It's finally died down now due to the mention of i90 Crafted Gear but the crafter economy is the complete opposite of dead on Excalibur. I didn't even have a legacy character head start either.

This is not the case on Goblin. It took 4 days to sell one i70 ring with me checking the price every hour or so for 16+ hours a day. I, because of undercutting and lack of sales, sold my Astral Ring HQ with Savage Aim III, Heaven's Eye III and Savage Might II for 51K. This was in November. Now? We have maybe one sale a week per item if we are lucky. Nobody wants gear that will be replaced in 3 weeks, 2 weeks now and 3 hours come Thursday. Crafting needs to have a set place in endgame. Maybe not the best, but not the bottom of the barrel of the respectable gear.

[stephenjd3]

Anyone saying crafting is fine as is has blinders on. The current collasped/near dead economy and the fact this is the only game doing it this way in the whole mmo market

when 2.0 first launched crafting gear was incredibly important it wasent until they raised the myth tome cap to 475 that made it less important, but guess what and its good news, crafting gear will be pretty good this time around since the best gear 110 will be coil, and with RNG more and more people will need to buy crafting gear, i90 crafting gear with materia? will prob be better then most i100, so it will be a great stepping stone for coil and statics working on coil.

There is nothing wrong with the way crafting is right now. Whats wrong is how easy it was to obtain the best gear in game (thanks to myth tomes being able to buy coil equivalent gear) but no more, chances are crafting will be lucrative

Also I've made millions of off crafting, and when I was still logging on, my shit was still selling, sounds like you may also not know how to use the market.

[Sylve]

better question is why does SE keep wasting time developing crafting and gathering stuff when they keep insisting they want it to be pointless.

Pointless for Raiding Endgame Content, yes. Look at Crafting in nearly every other MMO. It's all just for making gear to wear into Raids.

XIV is changing that up a bit. Change is scary. I like the direction of Crafting, and I've always hated Crafting in MMO's. Vanity options, Housing stuff, entry level raid gear and useful consumables is what Crafting should be about. I never want to play an MMO again that forces me to buy my gear at massively inflated prices just to be allowed to into a Dungeon. The Combat Content should not be held hostage by the Non-Combat crowd, which will happen if Crafters could make Allagan equivalent items.

If that was ever true, Vanya and the like would have always been more popular than darklight.

However, you must always figure out the the path of least resistance. The majority of people may simply get Mytho/Coil for 90, then jump to 100 with Soldiery and ignore crafted ilevel 90, no matter if they beat the 100 or not.

Min/maxer might be all over penta-melded ilevel 90s, but for the majority, that won't even register as a viable alternative.

The problem was that while Vanya was a BETTER choice than Darklight, Crafters made it unrealistically expensive and thus out of reach for the majority of players.
Hell, i remember getting my SCH to 50 and wanting the Vanya Robes.
At 450k Gil for a NQ Robe, and 600k+ for the HQ one, going all the way up to 1million Gil for a HQ with some useless Materia Melded in.
I even farmed up the mats for the Robe myself, started asking around for Weavers who could make one with my Materials, of the 7 who responded in the week i was asking, 5 would only make it if i paid them the full market price for buying it off the Boards, and the other 2 demanded 'tips' of 100 - 200k gil or they wouldn't do it.
I decided nope, bugger that, I'll just get Darklight, Free and only inferior on side stats.
Now that Vanya isn't in demand anymore, as the progression focused players all have their i90 kits now, the price of Vanya has dropped down to as low as 10k and is now affordable as an alternative for new Jobs to Darklight.

[Docent]

The problem was that while Vanya was a BETTER choice than Darklight, Crafters made it unrealistically expensive and thus out of reach for the majority of players.

Look at it from our point of view, maybe? When I was making Vanya Robes for profits, I paid 100k per philo mats. So at 900k cost for just those (then clusters, cocoons, rose gold, etc.), and the chance of landing a NQ if you "fail" the synth (I use fail here, but I mean "not get a HQ"), you lose more than 200,000 gil (Because you wouldn't be able to sell a NQ vanya around then for more than 600-700k).

We "charged" millions for Vanya because the people who ran dungeons sold the philo mats for so much. It has nothing to do with us trying to rip people off, it has everything to do with us selling things above cost.

[Sylve]

Look at it from our point of view, maybe? When I was making Vanya Robes for profits, I paid 100k per philo mats. So at 900k cost for just those (then clusters, cocoons, rose gold, etc.), and the chance of landing a NQ if you "fail" the synth (I use fail here, but I mean "not get a HQ"), you lose more than 200,000 gil (Because you wouldn't be able to sell a NQ vanya around then for more than 600-700k).

We "charged" millions for Vanya because the people who ran dungeons sold the philo mats for so much. It has nothing to do with us trying to rip people off, it has everything to do with us selling things above cost.

It didn't take many dungeon runs at all to get enough tomes to buy the Philo materials for Vanya stuff. The laziness of many Crafters led to an inflation in those material prices. You could easily have made hundreds of thousands of gil profit by getting your own Philo Tome materials.

Worse yet, you were BUYING the mats for that price! So of course people will keep putting them up expensive. Crafters could easily have simply stopped buying them and forced the prices lower, the resumed buying them when they reached a better price point.
But they didn't, and even the ones who farmed their own Materials still tried to sell them for up to a million gil a piece.
Farming your own mats but ending up with a NQ piece would allow you to STILL make a couple hundred thousand in profits since you paid nothing to make it.
And then the people who bought mats tried selling NQ stuff at HQ prices to make up for the mats they bought!

The biggest problem comes from the fact that many people refused to farm their own mats, it drove up the prices for even the ones that DID farm their own. Some people were making millions in profit with zero gil investment, because the guy who bought 900k worth of mats needed to make a profit.

Add to that a general sense of greed among Crafters, no Crafter would work to make a piece with no gil investment AND sell it at a low price point if half the Market Board is taken up by people who bought mats and overpriced to make their cash back, the farmer would simply take advantage of that and sell stupidly high, which is exactly what happened. And we see where that led don't we?

As for people saying to make craft mats drop from raids, if that happened, we'd end up with the Vanya at launch scenario all over again, as the Raiders who have no need of your craft gear and sell the mats to make equivalent gear at stupidly huge prices. Which naturally, the crafters would snap up and then saturate the market with overpriced stuff again.
Hell, by all means go for it. Set up that system. I'll just take the 3 Statics in my FC, have them sell the mats ridiculously high for a few weeks, then use the spare (free) mats to make our own i90s to sell and we can make millions upon millions for our bank with no effort required whatsoever. Should the other FCs start selling cheap, we'll just use our bank to buyout the entire Board and resale at inflated prices to manipulate the market back to inflated prices.
Now imagine some of the bigger FCs with 10+ statics doing the same thing.

Byebye economy.

[Susanoh]

Worse yet, you were BUYING the mats for that price! So of course people will keep putting them up expensive.

Yes, that's how supply and demand works. The same goes for the crafters who put their items up at a high price. If there's high demand for a product, people will sell it at a high price. That goes for people selling tome materials, and people selling finished products. You can't just blame the crafter every step of the way, when it's not the crafter who determines what the prices are, but everyone involved.

[Jynx]

The laziness of many Crafters led to an inflation in those material prices.

One could say the prices are also a part of the "Laziness" of raiders, if they weren't lazy they could make their own Philo gear and never need to buy anything right!?