This game is play to win.

[Sunarie]

I'm not saying you can't disagree with the additional retainers. Hell I'm not saying I agree with them. I'm saying people need to stop calling it pay 2 win. It's not. People constantly spout "pay to win" but I don't think it means what they think it means. I remember someone saying pay to win in a thread about fantasia. I mean we all know lalafell give maximum dps so nobody should get fantasia potions.
snipy

I do agree that it's not pay to win.. whether or not it gives someone an advantage I don't know enough to say yet. I did read something from the interview that the ventures are going to result in some unique items that can't be farmed otherwise. Without knowing how important those items are, or what they're used for.. I can't really say whether having multiple gives anyone any sort of advantage beyond bag space (as much as I don't like the idea of paying for bag space in a sub game).

[HoneyBiscuit]

pay2snip

No question it gives an advantage. But there will always be someone with an advantage over you no matter what. I don't actually have a lot of time to play. I'm way behind on content, and I'm not mad at others for being ahead of me, because they aren't stopping me from playing. Even not paying for retainers gives me a 2-4 dollar advantage over those who do. Someone out there who makes the same amount of money as me one day won't be able to buy that Pepsi. And I'll be home, bathing in it because screw that guy.

The only time this kind of thing becomes a problem is when we aren't paying for an optional service. When instead of paying something for some small leg up, you're paying more than you are already, to continue your progress in the game. Faith in Square seems to be lost on these forums. I have faith we'll not see anything game breaking or pay 2 win in this mmo in a long time if ever.

[Sunarie]

No question it gives an advantage. But there will always be someone with an advantage over you no matter what. I don't actually have a lot of time to play. characterlimitsnip.

Can't really argue with anything you just said. The problem (for me) just comes in when people can pay extra to get the advantage, as that's the very thing I choose subs to avoid. That advantage doesn't have to be a pay 2 win thing, it can very easily be a pay 2 get ahead thing. I still choose subs games to avoid it because historically, they have been the "everyone pays the fee, everyone gets access to all the stuff (save for some cosmetic items)." Just differing opinions is all. I do want to thank you for not being rude about it though.. and I do agree that folks are highly over reacting with the whole cries of pay 2 win (this is actually the only thread I've posted in about the situation).

[HoneyBiscuit]

Snip all day every day

Yeah, I know. This thread isn't really to tell people to ignore the retainer thing and suck it up. I don't much like it either. It's not that big of a deal as far as granting an advantage. But my point was only it's not pay2win, and XIV is nowhere close to pay2win. If people don't like it, they by all means should complain. But trying to make it sound worse than it is, is just counter productive. People end up sounding like raving idiots, rather than someone with legitimate concerns.

And yeah, I try not to be a douche unless someone feels the need to insult me, or thinks they're much more clever than they are.

[Gextiv]

Yeah, I know. This thread isn't really to tell people to ignore the retainer thing and suck it up. I don't much like it either. It's not that big of a deal as far as granting an advantage. But my point was only it's not pay2win, and XIV is nowhere close to pay2win. If people don't like it, they by all means should complain. But trying to make it sound worse than it is, is just counter productive. People end up sounding like raving idiots, rather than someone with legitimate concerns.

And yeah, I try not to be a douche unless someone feels the need to insult me, or thinks they're much more clever than they are.

"granting an advantage"

That's pay to win, period. However minuscule the advantage maybe be, is completely irrelevant.

[HoneyBiscuit]

"granting advantage"

Then the game has been pay to win since its release. Getting more characters than someone else is a paid advantage. Why is that not pay 2 win but the retainers are?

I'd instruct you to read the thread yourself and find a real definition of pay2win before spouting inane crap but it would fall on deaf ears in this case anyway. Good day to you sir.

[Musashidon]

Then the game has been pay to win since its release. Getting more characters than someone else is a paid advantage. Why is that not pay 2 win but the retainers are?

I'd instruct you to read the thread yourself and find a real definition of pay2win before spouting inane crap but it would fall on deaf ears in this case anyway. Good day to you sir.

this game has been pay2win since it went pay2play

since anyone not paying can't play everyone is paying to be better then everyone not.

[Gextiv]

Then the game has been pay to win since its release. Getting more characters than someone else is a paid advantage. Why is that not pay 2 win but the retainers are?

I'd instruct you to read the thread yourself and find a real definition of pay2win before spouting inane crap but it would fall on deaf ears in this case anyway. Good day to you sir.

Oh please, paying for more characters is mere convenience--in other words, it is pay for convenience.

The 2.2 retainers will bring a unique advantage--the type of advantage that's pay to win, regardless of how much of an advantage it brings to the table.

[Erepio]

I do agree that it's not pay to win.. whether or not it gives someone an advantage I don't know enough to say yet. I did read something from the interview that the ventures are going to result in some unique items that can't be farmed otherwise. Without knowing how important those items are, or what they're used for.. I can't really say whether having multiple gives anyone any sort of advantage beyond bag space (as much as I don't like the idea of paying for bag space in a sub game).

they will give u unique item,craft mats,minion but considering that those venture are based on luck since u dont know what u gonna actually get and also the fact that they going to take 18h for a retainer to do em i doubt it will be more for items than furniture and vanity...highly doubt they would put anything "must have" behind an "18 hour IF"....also u get a better chance of getting those if u give ur retainer gear so if some1 has 4 retainer with normal gear prolly has less chance of getting those things than some1 that has 2 fully deckout ones

All in all just by having those 2 extra retainers means nothing...u actually have to take the time and prolly money to actually lvl em AND gear em up