I hate the idea of Echo Buff. It should be part of some easy server not whole game.

[Tonkra]

The purpose of the Echo buff is to allow players who previously couldn't tackle the content (aka uber casuals) to progress through it. Those people deserve to get through the content - they pay the same money you do every month to play this game, if they choose not to be stopped by lack of skill to progress then they shouldn't be stopped. Something to consider, however, is that no matter how much of a buff they get, a Landslide will still knock them to 0 HP for the rest of the fight. The only difference is that they can make more mistakes and require less gear. They also need to make it 3 minutes into the fight to actually GAIN the Echo buff - so that, in and of itself, is a skill/gear barrier.

you talk to a "casual" player (i just started right now with Garuda EX, although i play since 1.0. beta)


i dont come from WoW or something like that... i never was a hardcore MMORPG player who had every item that has a drop rate of 1% or something like it (i remember FFXI times^) nor did i beat every hardcore boss in every game. although i payed for it! what kind of argument is that? its a game.
and there are different difficulties for every bosses.

Although i did pay for several MMorpgs in the past (e.g. Final Fantasy XI,DAoC, Lineage II etc.) My mentality was never like "oh i pay for this game every month, so i should be able to defeat that huge 6 head dragon who only 10% of the players defeated yet"..


i personally do not understand this mentality. im ok with it, that every player deserves to come through the story and beat the normale modes. but MUST every player INCLUDING ME be able to defeat the hardest, most extreme boss in the game? regardless of equipment or player "skill"...?

im ok with it if i am not being able to defeat Bahamut one day... and if only 10% of the player base is able to defeat him. and when i am able to defeat him after 20 tries the "wow effect" is even bigger.


but well its maybe just me... modern fastfood mmorpgs. im okay with the idea to push casual players, here you have a fatigue boost, here you have 15% damage boost. but oosh...



and hey... even in Final Fantasy 7 HD port they implemented an instant boost button ;XD


i am okay with it having rare items (5%-10%), rare bosses, hardcore bosses in a game... although i most likely wont have them... but hey there is something special for everybody to aim for.

[Amberion]

Snip!

Liked!

I'm like you, I never cried because I wouldn't get that relic, D.Ring or k.club. And since only a small amount of people had those, those items remained special.

You know, you hear the term entitled and special snowflake often on this board. And well, it's always targeted towards the hardcore/endgame people.

I kind of think it's more entitlement when someone goes, "I most be able to do everything, kill everything and have everything in the game".

[DarkslayerG]

Liked!

I'm like you, I never cried because I wouldn't get that relic, D.Ring or k.club. And since only a small amount of people had those, those items remained special.

You know, you hear the term entitled and special snowflake often on this board. And well, it's always targeted towards the hardcore/endgame people.

I kind of think it's more entitlement when someone goes, "I most be able to do everything, kill everything and have everything in the game".

I see where you are going with this, but I disagree. What point is there for SE to make content that only a small subset of their players can enjoy?

Also, you got to look at the long term. Without things to help new players, they can never catch up. In addition, it'll leave a big gap between the "hardcore" crowd and "casual" crowd where it becomes hard to provide consistent content for both. If they followed the traditional style of building harder raids that only the top players can clear, people will eventually leave cause they aren't getting anywhere in the game.

[rhemi1]

I see where you are going with this, but I disagree. What point is there for SE to make content that only a small subset of their players can enjoy?

Those players would have a point and a stance if this game required a large time investment. As it stands, you can clear Turns 1-5 in an hour and all EX Primals in the same time. What remains is players that simply lack the skill, and worse, lack the desire to improve, and want the game brought down to their level rather than improve themselves. These players will make excuses upon excuses, and threaten to quit if the difficulty is not brought down. Which, honestly, they should. If a game isn't meeting your needs, you should stop playing the game, not beg the developers to bring everything down for you.

Unfortunately, these players are numerous, and every one of them brings a sub fee. So, devs have a choice: Leave content difficulty alone and risk losing revenue, or cater to these players while keeping their revenue.

Sadly, what inevitably happens is these players rocket through the now-nerfed content only to hit the same exact walls with the current content, become frustrated, and leave again until the whole cycle repeats itself.

[Musashidon]

Sadly, what inevitably happens is these players rocket through the now-nerfed content only to hit the same exact walls with the current content, become frustrated, and leave again until the whole cycle repeats itself.

leave again? why because they only play for end game raids? no the reason there is the echo buff is to help them keep up with everyone so that instead of paying to play only 10% of the content they pay to play 90% of the content why would anyone play a game where they can only access a very small amount of content?

[Mitternacht]

leave again? why because they only play for end game raids? no the reason there is the echo buff is to help them keep up with everyone so that instead of paying to play only 10% of the content they pay to play 90% of the content why would anyone play a game where they can only access a very small amount of content?

Clearly out of good will to subsidize the fraction of the playerbase who are at the top of progression.

[DarkslayerG]

Those players would have a point and a stance if this game required a large time investment. As it stands, you can clear Turns 1-5 in an hour and all EX Primals in the same time.

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How many are actually able to even clear all the Primals and turns? Your point make sense if they are nerfing everything so people can just blaze through everything without trying, but that's not what they are doing. The new content will not have Echo buffs. Even with the old content, you can't just beat things without learning about it.

Another thing, you seem to make contradictory points in your post. If you can clear everything so easily, then making it easier really will not affect you. Like you said, players that can't handle it will be stuck at the new content. Players who have the required skill will progress. What's the problem?

[rhemi1]

How many are actually able to even clear all the Primals and turns? Your point make sense if they are nerfing everything so people can just blaze through everything without trying, but that's not what they are doing. The new content will not have Echo buffs. Even with the old content, you can't just beat things without learning about it.

Another thing, you seem to make contradictory points in your post. If you can clear everything so easily, then making it easier really will not affect you. Like you said, players that can't handle it will be stuck at the new content. Players who have the required skill will progress. What's the problem?

Because it doesn't help anyone, in the end. These same players will STILL struggle on the newest content because they are not learning and getting better. They still have the same exact skill, only now a bunch of numbers pops up and makes them successful.

You know another way you can see this content that only 10% of the population sees? Get better at the game. Stop being bad. Stop hoping that other players will simply carry you through content and actually learn. And if you can't do that, quit, or find something else in the game to do. This game is not difficult at all in comparison to even WoW.

If that makes me an elitist, then I'm an elitist. I'm sorry I spent 10 whole minutes watching a video for a fight before I went in and actually pay attention during the fight.

[Imoen]

Because it doesn't help anyone, in the end. These same players will STILL struggle on the newest content because they are not learning and getting better. They still have the same exact skill, only now a bunch of numbers pops up and makes them successful.

You know another way you can see this content that only 10% of the population sees? Get better at the game. Stop being bad. Stop hoping that other players will simply carry you through content and actually learn. And if you can't do that, quit, or find something else in the game to do. This game is not difficult at all in comparison to even WoW.

If that makes me an elitist, then I'm an elitist. I'm sorry I spent 10 whole minutes watching a video for a fight before I went in and actually pay attention during the fight.

Thank you for highlighting every reason for the echo buff to exists in the first place. Square Enix is a company and they exist to make money, I know this might be confusing to you, but the world does not evolve around you, your digital key clicking skills and eye hand coordination nor does it need you to continue to operate as a whole... it will however take your feedback into consideration.

I'm sorry if that is a bit harsh, but it is the reality, the fact of the matter is... If you have cleared the content, this does not effect you unless you are playing an alt for the LULZ, and EVEN in the event you are indeed playing an alt... and are indeed wanting to play at its original difficulty, the buff is completely optional. At no point in your rant did you give one valid reason NOT to have it, only reasons that we should.

[Emtron]

Stuff

I still fail to see how others being bad has a direct effect on the people that you clear the content with and yes you sound just like a elitist ass. good luck keeping this game going with only 10% of the player base playing btw. I mean how dare you assume that people are just bad or are not trying to get better at the game.

Why have small minority be the only ones that can do certain things oh wait its because according to you everyone that's struggling its do to lack of skill or effort.

I've played with both sides of the fence and if you wanna be super hardcore omgz I,m good at a video game that has no real bearing on real life by all means blow your load over your talent and or fast learning skills or elite group that you play with that can obliterate everything. So yet again I fail to see how any of this effects what you, or anyone in general that can do everything so much easier then others is.