Are you a masochist for enjoying the direction the combat changes are going in?

[Santrale]

I can't understand why they feel the need to make crippling changes to the battle system. Some say it's because there's no strategy, others say it is too easy. I can understand wanting strategy in a game, and a challenge.

First off let's define what a strategy is, because I've heard people say pierce is worthless. Reason being they don't like to have to move to line up enemies. But these same people have no problem trying to move a mob away because if they're fighting more than one of anything, they're going to die. I don't like the idea of not knowing till much later what any combat animations look like cause I'm so busy trying to look over my shoulder to make sure something else doesn't aggro me. Are they trying to make it so it's impossible to fight multiple enemies, I understand that so many is too much, but I don't like the idea of getting killed repeatedly during a leve because something aggroed that had nothing to do with the leve in the first place! I can see ranged and pulling and being aware of your surroundings, but in worst case scenario you should be able to handle a bad situation with strategy that doesn't involve having to pull the mob away. Strategy is more fun when you have to think on the fly out of a sticky situation. People have also said that the combat is just button mashing, I like it better than XI I mean unless you were a samurai who could spam weapon skills or a class that had so many job abilities or a caster... it was easy to fall asleep in XI considering you could spend forever and a day waiting for TP or recast timers. That's not strategy, it's a snore. If you need that much time to think, go play chess and not a video game. Not sure about the rest of you but I like being able to come up with more than a few strategies. Especially strategies based on certain jobs only, AND when it's needed to get passed storyline content. Who really wants to level a job they can't stand because some mission or quest calls for it? Not to mention if they completely cripple solo leveling it will mean you're going to waste more time than you wanted to in the first place. Not sure if you remember in XI or not, but black mages were the way to go most times, which is why I never leveled it. I can understand the thirst for white mage healers, because someone has to restore HP. But to do something with black mages because if you feed the mob TP it will waste you!? Really!? That's strategy when there's only one way anyone wants to do it!? I don't like a game that demands that and refuses to balance the classes. IE: Dragoon and summoner my main classes, they were all completely situational. Even if I'd see a shout to do a CoP mission I needed, they'd ask what jobs I had. And because I wasn't an over powered samurai, and because I wasn't a black, red, or white mage. I was turned down. Mind you the two jobs I mentioned can take on tough./very toughs solo, but no one wanted to have them in a party situation, the jobs they wanted were ones typically dependent on a party for efficient EXP.

Okay now let's define a challenge. A challenge usually states that a more average task in an MMORPG can be done. Granted I never wanted to fight shadowlord solo in XI, but I knew a red mage that could, but I'd like to think in the ordinary everyday things that a challenge in there. One that implies it can be done without an army of other players you either had to pay or kiss up to to help you! I'd rather like spending my time with players cause I like them and chose to as opposed to "I'll suck up cause I have no choice, I need you!" It doesn't make for a community, it just makes for people lying and pretending to be anyone's friend who will help them! I understand somethings being impossible without a party, but that would pertain to storyline or mission stuff I hope. And even then, don't make it so heavily reliant on certain jobs, balance out the classes so you aren't Lolled at a job you like because some over powered job that does the same thing is so much better you're obsolete.

Now I know FFXI players hate WoW, I understand, I went back to XI because the people in WoW were very rude and nasty, especially to a female player. I came back to XI for the community, however I hated the idea that nothing could get done alone-at all-EVER! Not to mention playing a dragoon, well you better have an EG LS that likes you, cause you're drg won't be anything efficiency wise unless you have proper gear, which is rare ex only. An auction house samurai could do fine for the most part... you may as well not waste time with an AH dragoon, unless they sold their souls to crafting.farming for all the great gear. (Don't even think about a relic weapon btw, if only cause you won't get one without using illegal means. Which is why while I never bought gil myself, I never looked down on people who did.)

I'm just worried this new system will cause many of the issues that FFXI did. There should be no repercussions for soloing when level grinding. You should have the option to play with people cause you want to, not cause you have to without missing out and having your nose rubbed in the dirt cause you have a life or don't want to sell your soul. The factors I've listed with the challenge and strategy part, well they're two of the main things that turned XI into this Co-dependent/dependent relationship I loathed.

I met a young man who had cancer once and said "MMORPGs are a life style." Now while I may not have much of a social life offline, when the opportunity presents itself I rather like the idea of not being on the game for a while. I understand though, why the makers try to make everything so time consuming. I've talked to people who work for the companies... Every second leads up to a minute, and every minute leads up to an hour, every hour leads up to days, and every day leads up to a year longer you're playing it. Personally when I learned this I felt insulted! It's a time vampire scam and nothing else. If they really want players to stay, why not add more content story wise and such, instead of making everything take a ridiculous amount of time to do. The story of XI may have been great, but in CoP I could care or less, if only cause at a certian point, I just wanted my ring, I didn't care about promathia or the story. That happens when you spend months trying to get to the next cut scene. I like the content of XI but there's things we can take from the all evily WoW too! Such as every job being useful in any given situation with enough strategy, and the idea that I don't have to live on a computer to enjoy a game. The rewards aren't good enough in some MMORPGs for the commitment of your time involved.

So If I am wrong PLEASE tell me that this game won't turn into some sick co-dependent/dependent thing with other players, and that I will be able to chose if i want to play with anyone at all-EVER and not feel like I missed out on a once in a lifetime opportunity. Also tell me I won't have to level jobs I can't stand for months so I can do anything. I like MMORPGs to meet other gamers, but... I don't like having to NEED them weather I want to or not! I also saw a thread about wanting to discourage PLing... yanno, if they didn't make it so ridiculously slow to level in the first place, no one would care about wanting a PL. If you disagree with all of this cause you think what I hate is fun, I can only say you are a masochist through and through. MMORPGs are a life style to those who can't leave their house, bad ones are a second job to those who can.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

Nice wall-ò-text for insulting random people.
The game is aimed both for casuals and party players. And no games can please both with same content. To do it, a game need different content for both audience.
Since you bring in WoW, i make an example: if you are a casual player, with equip taked from quests, you can't hop on a raid party and kill the lich king just because you have the level. You need a proper equip and ability, which you don't have. So, the lich king is forbidden for you, but you can do heroics.
thinking anyone can accomplish everything in a game is foolish, you can't do a difficult encounter bringing in undergeared or unskilled guy, otherwise isn't difficult at all.
Also, don't fucking duplicate threads.

[Santrale]

You're right, if you wanted the best pve gear in wow you had to raid. I raided some but I didn't have the best of the best gear for pve, I pvped more which was also an option for solo. It wasn't the same ridicule it was on XI though. I'm sure it sounded very insulting. But if you have the "MMORPGs are a life style!" mentality than yeah, you deserve it! If you're going to argue with me and insult me back, by all means! But come up with some more evidence that supports your side of things. I mean, do you agree in placing that much of your life into a game, for very little reward? I know the casual and hardcore gamers are in question, I just think that you shouldn't have some huge upper hand on a casual gamer just cause your events IRL either don't exist or you don't care about progressing in life at all, period.A friend of mine finally quit XI, he was an awesome blue mage, when he quit the only reason I got from him was. "It'd be nice to focus more on if the girl I went out with wants another date, or how many friends I made at a gathering last night than stressing over if I'm gonna get an obscure piece of gear from an HNM." No I don't believe you should be able to take everything on solo, I do believe you shouldn't hate yourself if you do though because you're either stuck with sub-par gear or it takes a ridiculous amount of time to get a level. ADD CONTENT AND STORY or do you just love the grind too much to give it up? I'd rather see the first to be honest.

[Santrale]

By the way, I am a more hardcore gamer! I just like the option of having someone around in game because I enjoy their game play and/or their company. I do not enjoy the idea of keeping other players around cause I can't get anywhere with out them and no other reason. I'd rather not feel I have to use, and be used by people to get anywhere in a game. Keep that insane level of difficulty you seem to savor Yukikaze, but for those who don't want to do that crap, don't make them suffer with terrible gear or obscenely slow leveling. It should be an option, not an obligation.

[yukikaze_yanagi]

You completely missing the point. This isn't fucking FFXI. There are no guaranty this game will end you useless with purchable gear. BUT if you asking endgame content should reward you with crap equip so people don't bother too much, well...that will be the doom of this game. Because nobody in a game (EVERY game) would use his time without getting rewarded for nothing.
I don't want something like hnm camps in ffxi, where you would camp for hours and MAYBE claime it, and MAYBE drop something, that's a no-no. But don't expect to play without any reward.
And don't expect either to get the best equip possible without any effort (communism :P). Wow with Wotlk already proved will ruin the game with a mass of retards

ps: don't think of myself an elitist, because i HATE elitist. nor i want ridiculy time-consuming events like ffxi, i want to play for a moderate amount of time, with a proper story and a proper difficulty. But RPGs are made of gearing too, so bastardize that part it's a really poor idea